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Bisimoto H22a Header Dyno

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    #46
    Dip at 5K

    I could not remove the dip at 5K rpm.

    The engagement rpm for that graph is is 4200 rpm, as you can see it make power before the 5K dip, but at 5K it drops. If you look at the other bisi header dyno there is a similar drop at 5K, he was able to gain there still, but the drop still exists.

    I am more interested in making power on my low cam, which didn't do squat for me. I didn't spend much time on it while on the dyno, but part throttle feels so much better then before that I was sure wot would show some gains.

    I really think I can pull another 5 out of it myself, and a more experienced tuner could pull a few more.

    I was extremely surprised to find that my engine liked it even richer then the 12.7 I was street tuning at. Unfortunately I didn't get the a/f ratio lowered until two runs before I had to go. I spent most of the hour scratching my head trying to pull power out of it with leaning it out.

    I will contact the shop and see if I can get an electronic copy of my 197 pull that I did the 157 tq and leaner mixture with, it is also the one I dropped peak timing on by about 3/4 of a degree.

    EDIT: to kentuky accord, the answer plainly is yes. I am disseminated with my 10 hp gain, however I am more disappointed that I was not able to get the gain over the entire powerband. If I could have accomplished that I would have been happy. As for it not making 17 like the other bisi dyno and whatever the f20b made, I really expected it. It was my first time dyno tuning, and like I said I started off with a 2whp gain. So pulling another 8 out of it on a dyno made me happy.

    I know you and others may think this is bullshit, but I really do believe there is at least 5 hp more on this setup with a better tune.

    Another thought to consider is that the header is made for a 12:1 compression motor, and for a skunk2 Pro1 camshaft. I will do my best to pull more power out of it, and if worse comes to worse I will call the pro and see if he will throw some time into it.

    That would be another interesting comparison wouldn't it.

    Amateur bisi header tune, vs pro bisi header tune LOL, If it happens I will surely post up.

    And I promise to not do anything else to the engine (except regular maintenance) and post up with higher numbers saying it gained more. That was the purpose of posting the before dyno before I did the bisi stuff. You know I am not lying.

    Wow too much typing.
    Last edited by Ghetto_CB7; 11-18-2010, 10:02 PM.

    201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

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      #47
      did you increase your timing with ur 12.5 afr?


      Praise The Lowered...

      Comment


        #48
        Nopes

        I just got the a/f ratio where it was happy before I had to get off. I think that running a more aggressive lower rpm timing curve, and then possibly dropping my upper rpm timing by a bit would have netted significant results.

        The second to last run I did I pulled the 201, and gained 4 whp across the board by adding 3% fuel to all loads above 750mbar.

        I then added 2% more on my final run and it dropped by 2 whp to 199. I did not have time left to do any ignition adjustments when I got the a/f where it liked it.

        I may go back on December 6th. Especially if the tuner guy was serious, $50 for 5-10 more whp is cheap compared to most mods.

        Or even $150 if I had to pay the pro to show me whats up.

        Maybe I could make a bet that if he doesn't pull a safe 210 I don't have to pay him. He is a pretty cool guy he might just go for that.

        201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

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          #49
          whats your avg timing between 5k-8k?


          Praise The Lowered...

          Comment


            #50
            On laptop

            Give me a few minuets and I will run home and grab my laptop and pull up some of the datalogs, and maps to post up.

            I don't have the log for the 201 pull, because I was in a hurry to get one more pull in and didn't save it, but I have the 199 one to show.

            Will be back in a few minuets.

            Wait patiently and treat yourself to something nice. (queue hold music)

            201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by wherm View Post
              scenario 2 doesn't seem like the best way to do it, cause you'd be running the stock header on the bisi header tune. how much would that affect the outcome?
              x2 ^^^^^^

              senario 1 FTW and with CAT. is my vote. hope everything goes as planned.
              frostwhite225@gmail.com =VENMO


              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOB38zJu66o

              [COLOR="Magenta"]

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                #52
                Screen Shots

                Here is low and high cam timing from the 201 run



                Here is the timing profile I was going to run next. It is the same low cam, with 3/4 of a degree taken off of the top rpm on high cam



                Here is the 199 whp datalog, I am running a bit leaner then I thought I was, especially at the top end, this shows me that I could gain more on a/f ratio too.

                Ignore the lean condition at vtec cross, it was lowered for this run and I did not adjust the a/f there, usually it is right in line with the rest.



                EDIT: sorry for the small pics, I will see if I can cut the white out of the timing ones, and upload a larger datalog

                201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

                Comment


                  #53
                  did i see that right?
                  around 11 seconds even going 10mph to hit 60mph?
                  edit: or longer.... something doesn't seem right
                  Last edited by KeeleDesign; 11-18-2010, 11:17 PM.
                  "Self Renewed"

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                    #54
                    Decent numbers for this header.. Not bashing but in all honesty this header IMO is comparable to a FGK, Mugen, SMSP, and Hytech after reading the numbers you put down.. Nonetheless, big ups to Bisimoto for offering a group buy to the h22 community and of course the F22 community..
                    Last edited by bmxicansd; 11-18-2010, 11:22 PM.
                    Header Whorage and Official Part out sale.

                    Official Garage Sale Thread

                    http://jdmconcepts.com/ Head porting specialist..

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by KeeleDesign View Post
                      did i see that right?
                      around 11 seconds even going 10mph to hit 60mph?
                      edit: or longer.... something doesn't seem right
                      If you go and do a 2nd gear pull you will realize that starting at 10 mph wot in 2nd isnt where the power lies. it does not take my car 11 seconds to get to 60 mph when using 1st gear...

                      Originally posted by bmxicansd View Post
                      Decent numbers for this header.. Not bashing but in all honesty this header IMO is comparable to a FGK, Mugen, SMSP, and Hytech after reading the numbers you put down.. Nonetheless, big ups to Bisimoto for offering a group buy to the h22 community and of course the F22 community..
                      It might very well be that this header is comparable to those, but to really know the header must be used with the parts it was built for. Using it on a stock internal motor when it wasn't built for that is not the best way to test its perfomance capabilities, its like putting great cam in and running a stock f22a1 exhaust, that does not show the true perfomance capabilities of the cam.

                      201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Ghetto_CB7 View Post
                        If you go and do a 2nd gear pull you will realize that starting at 10 mph wot in 2nd isnt where the power lies. it does not take my car 11 seconds to get to 60 mph when using 1st gear...



                        It might very well be that this header is comparable to those, but to really know the header must be used with the parts it was built for. Using it on a stock internal motor when it wasn't built for that is not the best way to test its perfomance capabilities, its like putting great cam in and running a stock f22a1 exhaust, that does not show the true perfomance capabilities of the cam.
                        I agree with you 100%.. Once again not bashing just posting my opinion..
                        Good numbers nonetheless..
                        Header Whorage and Official Part out sale.

                        Official Garage Sale Thread

                        http://jdmconcepts.com/ Head porting specialist..

                        Comment


                          #57
                          ahh makes since... i wasn't thinking about that but i also considered you did it to keep from tire spinning and that'll also take into factor.
                          I'd really like to see a 0-60 from first. as i'd like to compare it to the video of my back in the day h22 with stock accord automatic tranny.
                          "Self Renewed"

                          Comment


                            #58
                            CB7, you should be very proud, as I am with your tuning prowess, despite your tenure in this field. To be able to observe such gains is wonderful.

                            Many have forgotten the reasons why I got into header design: I paid $1600 for a Hytech unit, and gained only 3whp over a DC header, fully tuned!

                            Nontheless, this design does wonders, and graces the most powerful Honda n/a 4-cylinder engines ever. FYI, some examples:

                            World's fastest H-series: Jeremy Lookofsky, Bisimoto Header design
                            World's fastest B-series, Pro: Leslie Durst, Bisimoto header design
                            World's fastest B-series, Street: TB Autoworks, Bisimoto header design
                            World's fastest F-series: Bisimoto, Bisimoto header design
                            World's fastest D-series: Bisimoto, Bisimoto header design

                            It is hard to compare Bisimoto units to others, shelf or custom. We have not designed units for S2000, or K yet...the future is bright!

                            Keep us posted, CB, and job well done!
                            'Bisimoto D15/D16/F18/F22
                            World's Fastest and Quickest TRUE unibody all motor FWD
                            World's Fastest All Motor SOHC Honda
                            1988 CRX Unibody, D16 full street: 12.68 @ 107mph
                            1988 CRX Unibody, D15 full race: 10.77 @ 123mph
                            1988 CRX Unibody, F22A full race: 9.81 @ 139mph
                            2006 Insight Unibody, F22A: 9.26 @ 152mph
                            NEW!:www.bisimoto.com: parts, dyno tuning, apparel, technology!
                            Bisimoto's Facebook page
                            478 HP naturally aspirated F22A!!!

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Bisimoto View Post
                              CB7, you should be very proud, as I am with your tuning prowess, despite your tenure in this field. To be able to observe such gains is wonderful.

                              Many have forgotten the reasons why I got into header design: I paid $1600 for a Hytech unit, and gained only 3whp over a DC header, fully tuned!

                              It is hard to compare Bisimoto units to others, shelf or custom. We have not designed units for S2000, or K yet...the future is bright!

                              Keep us posted, CB, and job well done!
                              Thank you, comments like that from someone of your tuning caliper is a big pat on the back.

                              I learned a lot about what to expect when dyno tuning. I spent the majority of my hour correcting my tune for conditions I didn't even think about before going in.

                              A good example of this is my massive drop in IAT temps, I was setup to have a 3* timing retard for 140 degree or higher IAT, and was around 120* on the street, but was at 80* on the dyno leaving me advanced 1.5* over my street tune. Things of that nature really slowed me down.

                              I really wish that I could get on a constant speed / load dyno to do tuning, I think they would be much easier to learn on. But alas the closest one to me is in Arizona.

                              Thanks again and I will keep everyone updated.

                              201 Whp H22a with bolt ons, see the progress from stock f22a to now HERE

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Bisimoto View Post
                                Many have forgotten the reasons why I got into header design: I paid $1600 for a Hytech unit, and gained only 3whp over a DC header, fully tuned!

                                how much did you gain with a header of your design over the DC and/or Hytech?
                                '91ex coupe, modified.
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0JsF__KzA

                                @ConaireSmith on twitter

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