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The majority of the threads created can appropriately be placed in one of the Performance Tech sub-forums or Technical; and the posting of them here is detrimental to the activity of said forums. If you have any questions about where you need to place your thread PM me or one of the other mods.
For the most part you all have caught on without this post, but there have been a few habitual offenders that forced me to say this.
Everyone will get a couple of warnings from here on out, after that I just start deleting threads.
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Can you say....DYNO
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I'll speak my mind a bit about this. First off great job, congrats, and i'm glad u've worked up the nerve to open her up lately. Its amazing that u got more peak torque than me on your final tune vs. my baserun and i'm quite jealous and pissed off about itThose pulls were at 8psi right?
Now to the tuning. I figured it'd be best to just discuss it in front of everyone so they can learn a bit too starting with the a/f ratio. How was the wideband setup? Was it a sniffer? And do you still have the stock cat still in cause that could affect the readings vs. actual a/f's? For the most part tho it seems u did very well cleaning up the a/f and making it flat and close to 12.0:1. So assuming there are no more major changes that will be happening with the fuel we'll concentrate on the ignition timing.
Looking at your first dyno which was on my original basemap, your torque line doesn't really follow my ignition line. And your peak torque should have been in the 4000's not the 3000's. So i think your cam timing may be off from stock settings...somehow...maybe??? If you find out everything is ok with the motor and nothing is off then you should start adding more timing to the peak torque area and get it to where it no longer gains power or the power gain is so minimal you'd rather leave it where it is. After peak torque you should be fighting the torque drop and keep the torque line as straight as you can until power is no longer available or u think the timing is just too crazy. What i learned on the uberdata forums is that the peak torque should be the most retarded point in the ignition map. The timing should be advancing from the peak torque on. At the peak torque u have maximum cylinder pressure and efficiency right? And at that point of maximum cylinder pressure octane requirements are at a max too right? At that point in time if you aren't detonating then your octane requirements are certainly within limits so retarding the ignition after that point is just going to raise egt's and create less power when u could be operating at close to maximum efficiency both pressure and temperature wise and building plenty of power. Just look at the whp level off after your peak torque...theres at least 10-15whp just by keeping the torque curve straight right there. And also notice when your torque curve starts to drop so does your whp. I'll be trying this next dyno session. I'll need to take a close look at the map to your last dyno. The peak power being at 5100rpm ish seems to just be the exhaust. The 4800rpm drop just seems to be a timing drop at first glance the iab's wouldn't have that drastic of an effect. And why start the dyno at such a high rpm?Last edited by MRX; 01-10-2005, 11:38 AM.Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word
FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12
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Originally posted by midnite racer xI'll speak my mind a bit about this. First off great job, congrats, and i'm glad u've worked up the nerve to open her up lately. Its amazing that u got more peak torque than me on your final tune vs. my baserun and i'm quite jealous and pissed off about itThose pulls were at 8psi right?
Now to the tuning. I figured it'd be best to just discuss it in front of everyone so they can learn a bit too starting with the a/f ratio. How was the wideband setup? Was it a sniffer? And do you still have the stock cat still in cause that could affect the readings vs. actual a/f's? For the most part tho it seems u did very well cleaning up the a/f and making it flat and close to 12.0:1. So assuming there are no more major changes that will be happening with the fuel we'll concentrate on the ignition timing.
Looking at you first dyno which was on my original basemap, your torque line doesn't really follow my ignition line. And your peak torque should have been in the 4000's not the 3000's. So i think your cam timing may be off from stock settings...somehow...maybe??? If you find out everything is ok with the motor and nothing is off then you should start adding more timing to the peak torque area and get it to where it no longer gains power or the power gain is so minimal you'd rather leave it where it is. After peak torque you should be fighting the torque drop and keep the torque line as straight as you can until power is no longer available or u think the timing is just too crazy. What i learned on the uberdata forums is that the peak torque should be the most retarded point in the ignition map. The timing should be advancing from the peak torque on. At the peak torque u have maximum cylinder pressure and efficiency right? At that point in time if you aren't detonating then your octane requirements are certainly within limits so retarding the ignition after that point is just going to raise egt's and create less power when u could be operating at close to maximum efficiency both pressure and temperature wise and building plenty of power. Just look at the whp level off after your peak torque...theres at least 10-15whp just by keeping the torque curve straight right there. And also notice when your ignition curve starts to drop so does your whp. I'll be trying this next dyno session. I'll need to take a close look at the map to your last dyno. The peak power being at 5100rpm ish seems to just be the exhaust. The 4800rpm drop just seems to be a timing drop at first glance the iab's wouldn't have that drastic of an effect. And why start the dyno at such a high rpm?
the wideband used was a tailpipe deal, thats why i kept it below 12s, just to be safe. its definitly not anywhere near a perfect tune, but its a big step closer. after i get new exhaust im gonna be hitting the dyno again i think. so ill have more time to play around with everything.
ps. i just got a PM from some kid on HMT who claims to have blown his motor on your map...he says it was detonating at low RPM boost, which i can kind of see happening because the map (on my car) is VERY lean up to like 3700...im guess that when your giant turbo decides to start spooling, becuase then it gets off the scale rich lol. im definitly going to be getting a bigger turbo soon
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correct me if i am wrong but it should be at 7.8psi..
Originally posted by midnite racer xI'll speak my mind a bit about this. First off great job, congrats, and i'm glad u've worked up the nerve to open her up lately. Its amazing that u got more peak torque than me on your final tune vs. my baserun and i'm quite jealous and pissed off about itThose pulls were at 8psi right?
Now to the tuning. I figured it'd be best to just discuss it in front of everyone so they can learn a bit too starting with the a/f ratio. How was the wideband setup? Was it a sniffer? And do you still have the stock cat still in cause that could affect the readings vs. actual a/f's? For the most part tho it seems u did very well cleaning up the a/f and making it flat and close to 12.0:1. So assuming there are no more major changes that will be happening with the fuel we'll concentrate on the ignition timing.
Looking at your first dyno which was on my original basemap, your torque line doesn't really follow my ignition line. And your peak torque should have been in the 4000's not the 3000's. So i think your cam timing may be off from stock settings...somehow...maybe??? If you find out everything is ok with the motor and nothing is off then you should start adding more timing to the peak torque area and get it to where it no longer gains power or the power gain is so minimal you'd rather leave it where it is. After peak torque you should be fighting the torque drop and keep the torque line as straight as you can until power is no longer available or u think the timing is just too crazy. What i learned on the uberdata forums is that the peak torque should be the most retarded point in the ignition map. The timing should be advancing from the peak torque on. At the peak torque u have maximum cylinder pressure and efficiency right? And at that point of maximum cylinder pressure octane requirements are at a max too right? At that point in time if you aren't detonating then your octane requirements are certainly within limits so retarding the ignition after that point is just going to raise egt's and create less power when u could be operating at close to maximum efficiency both pressure and temperature wise and building plenty of power. Just look at the whp level off after your peak torque...theres at least 10-15whp just by keeping the torque curve straight right there. And also notice when your torque curve starts to drop so does your whp. I'll be trying this next dyno session. I'll need to take a close look at the map to your last dyno. The peak power being at 5100rpm ish seems to just be the exhaust. The 4800rpm drop just seems to be a timing drop at first glance the iab's wouldn't have that drastic of an effect. And why start the dyno at such a high rpm?
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Eric, u and I both know that anywhere my map is posted then so is a disclaimer and a list of my mods. If that person didn't compensate for his setup then its not my fault in the least bit. Actually the only person who said something to me about detonation (2500-3000rpm range) was RENR and he fixed his by just takin out some timing and adding some more fuel. Hell i had like 140% boost efficiency on the map lol. Anyways if he wants to talk then have him contact me even though its not in the least bit my fault (not saying your placing blame just saying). Anyways, yea i found the stuff about the ignition and torque very interesting also and the more u think about it the more it makes sense. Seeing as most ppl get scared and retard the ignition thus heating the cylinders and roasting piston ring lands and rings all while thinking its safe...seriously the more i keep thinking about it the more i'm like..."why didn't i think of that b4 lol? Dammit i'm dumb!"Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word
FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12
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Originally posted by midnite racer xEric, u and I both know that anywhere my map is posted then so is a disclaimer and a list of my mods. If that person didn't compensate for his setup then its not my fault in the least bit. Actually the only person who said something to me about detonation (2500-3000rpm range) was RENR and he fixed his by just takin out some timing and adding some more fuel. Hell i had like 140% boost efficiency on the map lol. Anyways if he wants to talk then have him contact me even though its not in the least bit my fault (not saying your placing blame just saying). Anyways, yea i found the stuff about the ignition and torque very interesting also and the more u think about it the more it makes sense. Seeing as most ppl get scared and retard the ignition thus heating the cylinders and roasting piston ring lands and rings all while thinking its safe...seriously the more i keep thinking about it the more i'm like..."why didn't i think of that b4 lol? Dammit i'm dumb!"
absoluty, i agree 100%. it was that RENR guy that said he cracked a rod. he definitly wansnt blaming it on you in anyway though, he seemed cool about it. i was just letting you know. im gonna try and check my timing today or tommorow to see where it is at. just let me know where abouts its should be. thanks.
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