Lsd

[Fearit22]

I'm looking to make some pretty high hp numbers so I'm starting to build up my tranny and of course I want to get an LSD. I don't understand what the difference is between these two LSD's though besides the $600 difference...could someone inform me...
http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Accord/MODALSD
$900
http://www.phantomgrip.com/
~ $300

Even if I get one of these I don't want to end up blowing a tranny. Does anyone have a clue as to what kind of numbers it could hold?

[h22sparkle]

Put it this way you get what you pay for and not to mention that I hear about alot of the phantomgrips greakin inside the tranny under some different situations . But as for a quaife sure its a bit pricey I got it and it does wonders in autox and a little bit when you straight race.

The quaife has a lifetime warantee on it too I dont think the phantomgrip does. besides the phantomgrip only locks it into place thats cheap but hey you get what you pay for I speak for everyone on cb7 when i say get a quaife.

[HondaFan81]

I know how differentials work, i work for a Dana Corp & they make a few. Anyways, I went to Phantom Grip's website but they don't show any assembly pics, does someone have one or can explain how they work? I just want to know for curiosity sake & see why it's not better.

As for chosing between clutch type LSD & quaiffe (mechanical type)...I'd go with Quaiffe as well.

However, Quaife vs Phantom Grip?? gotta check into this more...

[h22sparkle]

It works as the pin locks in as you turn actvating either side but I hear them shits break though go to how stuff works and type it in.

[BustedLX]

Originally posted by HondaFan81
I know how differentials work, i work for a Dana Corp & they make a few. Anyways, I went to Phantom Grip's website but they don't show any assembly pics, does someone have one or can explain how they work? I just want to know for curiosity sake & see why it's not better.

It's actually quite ingenuis how it works. I'm going to get one myself.

The rumers about them breaking and destroying transmissions is because of installation error not product failure.

I don't really know the termanology of what everything's called so bare with me. You remove the diff, inside the diff there are two gears one going to one tire the other to the other. then there is these two gears on a rod right that locks both tires together, it basically makes the diff what it is. Well you remove those two gears that are on the rod. You remove the two gears that go to each tire and you grind off the small lip they have. Then you put them back in the housing, slide the phantom grip cube in there and once it's in you remove locking tabs and then the high tension springs lock the two gears together. So they are forced to spin together.

I hope you understood that. Once you have it all apart it makes perfect sense it's just hard to describe.

[HondaFan81]

Pic of stock 4th gen differential just so everyone can see the parts. Currently investigating how Phantom Grip LSD works, will reply after. I just printed out the installation instruction w/pics so that should help in understanding how it works.

[HondaFan81]

Busted:

2 gears going to either tire are called differential side gears.

2 gears on diff pin are called pinion mate gears.

Phantom Grip works by exerting spring force onto the differential side gears. You replace the stock diff pin, with their diff pin which has grooves to improve lubrication supposedly & provide tighter fit. They say to grind side gear surface that contacts diff housing so the system will fit & probably so it rotates with minimal binding. The base spring they offer is rated at 665 lb & upgrade is at 775 lb. Basically, this means the higher the load, the more resistant it will be to differentiating, or letting wheels turn at different speeds. For wheels to round corner properly, the outside wheel has to turn faster, which means the diff side gears have to break free from one another (overpowering spring). Given, you want the wheels to turn at different speeds when rounding a corner, but when going in a straight line you want to basically lock them up, providing same torque more or less to each wheel.

Things I ponder:
1) how long will springs last, before they fatigue?
2) how does this LSD act around corners in terms of steering wheel behavior?
3) how easily are the springs overcome & side gears begin to differentiate?
4) I noticed they seem to offer same spring loads for all cars? Each engine produces different amount of torque, so how can this be?

[HondaFan81]

Questions I'm wondering regarding Quaife vs Phantom Grip.

1) Integra Type R has Quaife & we all know that kicks on road racing/autoX, why didn't they go with Phantom Grip style?

2) In PG's website testimonials they say PG is doesn't have as much steering wheel feedback as Quaife. This really true?

Quaife:
More expensive
torque biasing type LSD
should last longer, being all gears & mechanical

Phantom Grip:
significantly cheaper
spring loaded type LSD
life dependent on spring fatigue life

Right now, it seem PG might be more suitable for drag racing, but Quaife for road racing/autoXing. I'd like to get first-hand opinions though.