Brake fade

[Pandemic]

What is the key to brake fade. I know there's gas between the pad and rotor... meh, but what's the biggie? boiling fluid?

[CB7Man]

The point when you press harder, and you dont slow any faster

[Pandemic]

I know what it is, I'm asking what causes it.

[JDMxDB8]

Worn out pads or rotors, broken brake master cylinder, not enough brake fluid, etc. Brake* not break.

[NAiL05]

1. Heat is the main cause of brake fade
2. Loss of pedal pressure is what describes brake fade.
3. Rubber lines expand over time unlike SS lines that help improve brake feel.
4. Brake fluid boils at a certain temp and starts to lose efficiency which = loss of braking.
5. Pad and Disk wear can cause that feeling sometimes as mentioned.
6. Lack of brake cooling. If the disk is too hot the pads are just as hot. And again loses efficiency.

Basically brake fade is mostly caused by excessive heat. A slotted rotor if not a bigger rotor with more surface area will help and a good set of pads will prevent this from happening. The SS line upgrade is also really nice which helps communicate the feel a lot better.

[bcjammerx]

only thing I could add...

Larger thicker rotors fade less, they also warp less...good airflow over 'em really helps too...cause that pulls heat off

you could get cross drilled and/or slotted...I hear a lot of good things about slotted...but you'd need to look into it more. Some cross drilled rotors crack easily...so don't cheap on drilled rotors. But from what I've read I wouldn't recommend them...especially if you warp rotors easily...that's a lot of heat.

Also higher quality pads...AVOID LIFETIME WARRANTY PADS!!!...

[johnl]

What is the key to brake fade. I know there's gas between the pad and rotor... meh, but what's the biggie? boiling fluid?

These are two completely different problems with the same result, no brakes.

Pad fade is caused by the pads overheating and giving of gas (seen as smoke), so the pad and rotor are separated by a microscopically thin layer of very high pressure gas, which has a less than impressive co-efficient of friction.

This problem can be addressed by any one or a combination of the following:

Fitting pads that give off gas at a higher temp (but tend not to work so well when not hot)

Slotted rotors (allows what gas there is to vent from between the pad and rotor more easily)

Cooling air ducted toward the centre of the rotor (from where it can pass outward through the cooling vanes to keep the rotor cooler, and thus the pads cooler)

By fitting larger rotors (more surface area from which to radiate heat).

If money is no object, fitting carbon fibre rotors and pads

With this condition the pedal won't be affected, except possibly that subjectively it may feel harder than usual because you push harder and harder and the pedal doesn't move much but you get no result for the frantic effort you're putting in with your foot.

The other problem is caused by the brake fluid boiling due to heat, creating gas bubbles that are compressible (because gas is compressible but liquid isn't), causing a soft pedal in a minor case and no pedal in a severe case (i.e. pedal goes to the floor and the car just won't slow down). If you're lucky you might get some pedal back by pumping it, but don't bet on it.

The cause of this problem is to do with the brake fluid absorbing moisture from the atmosphere over time (brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water very readily). Since water boils at a much lower temperature than brake fluid, the boiling point of the contaminated brake fluid becomes lower the more water is present in the fluid. The water content also leads to corrosion in the braking system, which leads to worn cylinder bores, pistons and seals, so leads to leaks.

The moral of the story is change the brake fluid regularly, say once a year to keep all in tip top shape.

[wed3k]

or stay off the brakes and know your limits

[NAiL05]

or stay off the brakes and know your limits

Only pussies brake through corners, I drive through them.

[starchland]

Only pussies brake through corners, I drive through them.

I would say your not driving fast enough then.

There is alot of misconception in this thread, alot of it has to do with marketing techniques for brakes and facts that used to be true. basically do your research and come to the conclusions that make sense to you. brake fade is caused by heat.

[johnl]

There is alot of misconception in this thread, alot of it has to do with marketing techniques for brakes and facts that used to be true. basically do your research and come to the conclusions that make sense to you. brake fade is caused by heat.

What do you mean by "facts that used to be true"? The physics concerned with braking performance have never changed, and never will. The problems encountered with braking systems 50 years ago are still encountered today, and are commonly dealt with in a similar manner now as then.

[starchland]

What do you mean by "facts that used to be true"? The physics concerned with braking performance have never changed, and never will. The problems encountered with braking systems 50 years ago are still encountered today, and are commonly dealt with in a similar manner now as then.

not true, for one the materials used have changed drastically.

[d112crzy]

Brake fade is a scary feeling.

[johnl]

not true, for one the materials used have changed drastically.

Possibly true (though "drastically" might be overstating it), but the materials still aren't perfect and the problems that have always existed still exist, though the bar has been lifted way higher than it used to be.

Brake fade is still a real problem in high performance applications (or even just for cars towing something down a hill), and the solutions are still more or less the same as they have been for years.

[CB7Man]

Drums fade real FAST