VSR Intake manifold (coming soon)

[98vtec]

well the 4g63's i build for people, the redline is at 10,500. I dont know if these motors can get that high but i am sure someone will some day. I always like to over build and have parts that i can grow with. saves cash in the long run.

i'm sorry to jump beyond things i may not have a grasp on but i was under the impression that intake manifolds were designed based on resonant pulse tuning? Not on what the engine can rev to...... I have yet to see even the baddest honda motor make power to 10k, much less a single cam f22.

what you said just doesnt make much sense to me. Would be nice for you to explain it.

[lokuputha]

I have yet to see even the baddest honda motor make power to 10k, much less a single cam f22.

here are some:
10000rpm Honda Engines 1

10000rpm Honda Engines 2

10000rp m Honda Engines 3


High revving engines can be built. Especially the popular F20 SOHC and DOHC engines with their shorter stroke can be built to take the high revs.

[98vtec]

here are some:
10000rpm Honda Engines 1

10000rpm Honda Engines 2

10000rp m Honda Engines 3


High revving engines can be built. Especially the popular F20 SOHC and DOHC engines with their shorter stroke can be built to take the high revs.

i think you misunderstood. I know hondas can rev, i'm talking about actually making power to 10k. Just doesnt seem like a logical way to design an intake manifold.

this is the way i see an intake design:

should be based upon the cam used, its duration and lift. This will determine the length of the intake pulse and the resonant wave that makes its way back up the intake tract. This is going to determine how long of a runner to use and how large of a plenum to design. Of course i dont know any of the hard facts, but that is my idea of how to design an intake.

[lokuputha]

average hp gains > peak hp gains

considering the application, racing, 10000rpm is not an unreasonable design boundary. Pulse turning and flow testing up to that rpm seems fine.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[wed3k]

i think you misunderstood. I know hondas can rev, i'm talking about actually making power to 10k. Just doesnt seem like a logical way to design an intake manifold.

this is the way i see an intake design:

should be based upon the cam used, its duration and lift. This will determine the length of the intake pulse and the resonant wave that makes its way back up the intake tract. This is going to determine how long of a runner to use and how large of a plenum to design. Of course i dont know any of the hard facts, but that is my idea of how to design an intake.

ever see the video of the stock civic si vs the si that rev's to 10k?

due to the ability to rev higher, he is able to to stay in gear longer so there is no delay and actually came out 1/2 car length ahead just because he can wind it out.

but then again, he does have a built motor :o

the ITB design is within the intake manifold...i was building itb's but for road racing purposes it may be better for a custom manifold with a 72mm TB so that i can run an air filter.

idk, itb's sound cool though especially if you have a lobey cam.

anyways, what kind of material were you looking for? i may have scrap aluminum in the machine shop that i work in :o

[98vtec]

ever see the video of the stock civic si vs the si that rev's to 10k?

due to the ability to rev higher, he is able to to stay in gear longer so there is no delay and actually came out 1/2 car length ahead just because he can wind it out.

but then again, he does have a built motor :o

the ITB design is within the intake manifold...i was building itb's but for road racing purposes it may be better for a custom manifold with a 72mm TB so that i can run an air filter.

idk, itb's sound cool though especially if you have a lobey cam.

anyways, what kind of material were you looking for? i may have scrap aluminum in the machine shop that i work in :o

yea, i know this already. Again, im not referring to hondas not being able to rev to or beyond 10k.
taking my h22 to 8500 and the track taught me alot about momentum, especially for the 1-2 shift.



this is the style design the OP is going for.

[accordaffair]

10000rp m Honda Engines 3

I've been looking for a free version of the battle at 10k rpms to show to other people, thanks!

In it, a crx beats an nsx and an s2000 among others

[d112crzy]

I agree with 98vtec.

To have a well design manifold, you don't start out planning with an RPM in mind.

You need cam specs and head flow specs to design the perfect manifold.

The only way I can see this working to 10k would be to have really short runners, which would suck balls for an f22, especially one that is not even mildly built. Which, most members on here don't even ever get an aftermarket camshaft.

[owequitit]

Considering eviljareds past experiences, he probably has an idea of what he needs to know.

Also, both 98VTEC and D112 are neglecting the fact that EVERY intake manifold is a compromise in one form or another. The only way to eliminate the compromise of RPM band is to have infinitely adjustable length intake runners that can create the exact length for resonant tuning at any RPM. Similar to the ones that were outlawed in F1. That probably isn't going to happen though, especially not on a reasonable budget. And even if you did this, the diameters etc would STILL be a compromise.

The other thing to consider is that resonant tuning only occurs over a VERY narrow RPM range, probably a few hundred RPM at most. So even if you design the IM to be specifically tailored to whatever point you want it to resonate at, it still isn't going to be ideal from idle to redline. No matter what.

So then, how does Honda make engines that can pull with 90% of peak torque from just off idle, and still have them peak at 7000-8000RPM?

There are a lot more variables in play with the IM than just resonant tuning. You have volume, velocity, direction, friction, surface flow, length, diameter, plenum size, etc. Resonant tuning is only a small part of it.

The key with a properly designed part is to take all of the variables and compromise them to have the largest NET gain. This is overall gain. Perhaps, resonant tuning isn't ideal over most of the powerband, but with careful manipulation of the variables, you can still have a nice fat powerband. OEM's do it all the time. That is one reason for multiple stage intakes.

You can't build and design and market a mass produced part for every build, because every build is different. So there will be compromise, unless of course each individual is willing to pay the thousands required to have a custom manifold designed, tested and built, which I highly doubt.

The job of a good engine builder is to choose the parts that work best for that build. The job of the part builder is to try and make the part as broadly appealing as possible.

Besides, while important, the IM is NOT the only component in an NA build that dictates power. Yes, you need to factor in cams, headflow, etc, but realistically, and engine produces power over a large curve, and thus will be somewhat adjustable.

At low RPM's, you want to maintain velocity, at high RPMs you want to cram as much in as you can without restricting flow.

[straightedge]

What about with a turbo application? All those variables are usually not taken into consideration because of the "force-fed" air, correct? So, as long as there is a smooth flowing system with ample runner length, a boosted platform would benefit immensely from an aftermarket unit as opposed to the factory "complicated" one.

[evillejared]

wow this has turned into a massive shit heap.

I am not building it with the rpm as the base. I dont know any dumbass who would do that. But tell me this, if you have cams that make power at or beyond 10k rpm, a head that is built for it...why have other parts that cant?

as i have said this part is going to be able to make power on the top end for the guys who need that power. Now if your motor cant go that high, it will still make power across their powerband.

This is not hard to understand. I am not going to go into my math, physics, or reasoning untill its done. Then i am sure all of your questions will be answered. Untill the day that its done please carry on this conversation someplace else.