I'm new here, but I have been looking through this forum for months. I just got the car, but the previous owner has put intake header cats exedy stage 2 clutch, and new bushings on the car. I'm really happy with the performance I have, as well as the reliability and gas mileage. Since this is going to be a daily driver, I want to go with the most reliable method of making this car quicker, without making it overkill. After reviewing most of what is said here, I'm leaning towards a turbo. I see lots of arguments against it, especially with stock internals. I'm willing to do some internal work, but I'm really not sure what internals would help keep the reliability of the car, and what internals would make it overkill. The overall plan I have devised (subject to change with comments and suggestions) is something like stage 1 bisi camshaft regrind, rebuild of the engine, and turbo setup. I can do more than that, but I need to work on the appearance of the car, and i am by no means made of money. So I have to keep it within reason. I'll be leaving for basic training january the 15th, so I'm trying to get some ideas on before i leave, as well as finding places that can help me if i need assistance. I'll get some pics up when i get the chance.
-
Last edited by 93excb7; 12-14-2007, 05:14 AM.War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill-- -
h23 h22 or f22b dohc are your only cheap alternatives, dont go cheap on the turbo... -
x2. ive spent over 2.5k on my project.Originally posted by NorcoAccord
jdm f22b is your new friend bro. turbo isnt reliable. you need a car on the side. if your rings blow, it will take you at least 1.5-2 weeks before you could get it back on the road.miss my turbo cb7
moved onto volvos. dont know how that happened, just didComment
-
Turbo can be reliable. If you use the proper components, proper internals, and tune it correctly, it can be perfectly reliable. The only thing with turbo is that if something is going to fail inside the motor, the turbo will accelerate it (more heat, mainly). You have to be attentive to your motor's condition.
You'll want to get some decent low-silicone forged pistons, forged rods, and new bearings. If you want to spend the extra money, get the block sleeved (darton and golden eagle are popular). That combination will make your bottom end QUITE strong.
Get yourself a t3/t4 turbo, a nice sized intercooler, at least 450cc dsm injectors (new or rebuild ones would be safest).
And MOST importantly... TUNE IT! So many turbo setups don't last because people don't properly tune the motor. You can achieve good gas mileage, good reliability, AND good power with a proper tune.
Comment
-
yeah i forgot to mention that i planned on getting some sort of management computer as well, and to tune it, but as a ballpark figure would i come out cheaper on the forged internals as well as injecters and stuff, or would it be cheaper to drop in an f20b or something like an h22, and what kind of power would i be seeing if comparing these two options.
and what brand turbo would you recommend, as well as for the rest of the kit, i know a lot of brands out there are iffy, and when i do something, i like to do it right and the safe way. i couldn't find just a complete kit for the turbo.
why would i drop in an f22b, besides the fact that its dohc, doesnt it only have 160hp? i dont see the horsepower gains being sufficient for the money, i have an f22a6 so taking miles and accessories into consideration im probably running 130 hp right now. wouldnt that swap only give me 30 horsepower, thats if its got low miles?
im not trying to get anything crazy out of the engine, i just want to try and take quarter mile times down to like low 14s high 13s. unless a reliable turbo or all motor build would get me better than that.Last edited by 93excb7; 12-14-2007, 02:02 PM.War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--Comment
-
The F22B is a good option for a little more power, or for turbo, for about half the cost of an H22. It can be made quite powerful, even with 40hp less than the JDM H22A. Some cams, a decent header and exhaust, and a good tune would probably make it competitive with an H22 for about the same price.
The H22 and F20B are good motors. The H22 is a bit more versatile, and the only real reason to get an F20B is to have something a little less common. The powerband isn't as broad as the H22, but it's still comparable. The redline is higher, which is always fun!
To do turbo RIGHT, it won't be cheap. It'll be cheaper to do an H22 swap, hands down. However, to do turbo RIGHT, you can make considerably more power.
Also, you mentioned a Bisimoto Stage 1 camshaft with your turbo plans? Why? Don't get an NA cam for turbo... NA cams often have high overlap, and you do NOT want that with turbo! A high lift, short or 0 overlap turbo cam is best, if you want a cam upgrade. I wouldn't touch the cam on a turbo street car myself.
How much money are you expecting to spend? A sleeved block will run you about $1000. Forged internals about another $1000. You could probably leave the head alone, though freshening it up would be a good idea. A turbo setup depends on what you get, and what prices you can find. For a proper setup, expect to spend anywhere from $1500 to $3000 for the "turbo system" (turbo, intercooler, downpipe, piping, bov, wastegate, etc...) Engine management can cost anywhere from $100 for a chipped P06 to thousands. Having it tuned again depends on where you go.
On a budget, you could probably get away with running forged internals on the stock sleeves. I wouldn't go over 14psi or so on the stock sleeves. I'm sure they COULD handle more, but if you want reliability, don't push it.
Check ebay for internals. You won't find the best stuff, but for a mile application, it'll probably work.
Look into a modified P06 for engine management, but be sure you know someone that can tune with Crome (or a similar program... Uberdata, ECtune, etc...)
Check out evillejared's Member Shop for a pre-made turbo kit. His prices are pretty reasonable, and he does good work. OR you could just source all the parts yourself and save a little more... it just won't be as pretty, and it'll take more work.
220-250whp is possible on stock internals. That'd get you into the low 14s, possibly high 13s. Forged internals, you could probably get away with 300whp, maybe a little more. Any more, and you'd definitely want to sleeve the block.
Comment
-
exactly what i wanted to know, thanks for the extremely quick replies. The cam regrind came under the advice from friends, but i would definitely trust the people on this site more. Sleeving it sounds better to me, I don't want to skimp when it comes to the car.
I will probably go with the turbo build, just because most of my friends are all about dohc, and keep telling me to get rid of the cb all together and get a civic hatch, and go the usual route. but this is what i have, and im not a real big fan of civics.
I have an overall budget of about 5 to 8 thousand. But thats including fixing the rust on the car and some touchup paint, which i wont be doing myself.
I'll be in mississiippi most likely when all this actually gets done, so if anyone knows of a good paint and body shop, as well as somewhere to get a good tune, let me know.
I'm also trying to find information on rebuilding the engine. is an f20b easy to find with low miles? if so id do that rather than rebuild the existing one.War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--Comment
-
I believe you can get an F20B long block from Hmotors for around $1300.Originally posted by sweet91accordComment
-
ya your better getting advice here, since people have done sick stuff and know what their doing.
see lowdollars build, and you'd be amazed.miss my turbo cb7
moved onto volvos. dont know how that happened, just didComment
-
looked at hmotors. for the tranny and all its going to be more than that, thanks for the site though, anyone got any other good engine sitesWar is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--Comment
-
hmotors is the only one I'd trust. There are a few others around that have been going for a while... and a ton of brand new ones that will probably be gone in 6 months (only to reappear with a new name). hmotors is by far the best.
Comment
-
turbo it, you could easily stay within your budget and have 300whp, if you sleeve well the possibilities are pretty much up to you from their on, just remember to have it tuned extremely well, by somebody with lots of experience, dyno tuned FTWComment
-
x2 on the tune, wouldnt do without it.War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--Comment
Comment