Just bought car, dead 3rd cylinder?

[slammedteg91]

Hi, im pretty new to the site (been reading for a while) as well as I am new to engine internals in general, although I've owned many a Honda (a B16A integra (DA), EF civic Sedan and hatch, 2 fifth gen accords), this is the first one needing "internal" work.

Anyway, I bought a 91 Accord LX sedan 5-speed for $350. Has 115,300 miles on it, original engine/trans. I thought it ran okay, the guy told me one cylinder wasn't firing due to a bad plug wire. I figured, hell most clean shells go for $300, so even the engine is beat, I atleast got a good transmission for $50 As luck would have it, the engine is beat!

Ok, on to the tech. I went ahead and bought new plugs (NGK V-Power OEM replacements like in all my other Hondas - work great), new wires, cap and rotor. Put all of them on, expecting a miracle but it still ran the same (smells like gas, if you let it idle under 750 it dies, no power, it just makes a "tingling" noise when you step on the gas, my old 5th gen did it if you floored it in 5th, like the engine doesn't have power to go anywhere if that makes sense). Also I got an emissions test done, at idle, HC is 2500ppm, should be 220, and at 2500RPM it is 3400ppm, should be 220. C0 was around 2.30%, should be 1.20%.

So, I check for spark. Good in all 4. All four injectors are clicking. So, as I pull out the plugs to do a compression test, all of them look the same except for #3 (second to the dist. side, counting left to right 4 3 2 1), it is really dark. All cylinders are around 135psi except #3 which is 15psi. (130, 15, 135, 138). Didn't do a wet test (yet). Also, it burns oil, and the radiator is cracked, caused it to run hot on me once (at the emissions test actually), but didn't overheat or boil over. I took off the valve cover and cranked, and all 16 valves are moving, and nothing looked out of the ordinary there.

After searching and consulting, I think it might be a bad ring or a cracked piston. If it was something in the head, I'd just rip the head off and replace it/get it machined, whatever. But since its probably block related, I might throw in a JDM F20B DOHC or an easy bolt-in swap (no $$$ for H22).

So based on the info I've given, would you believe it is something in the block (cracked piston/ring issue), or just bent valve, etc. Thanks!

[pretty_ricky302]

you need a new valve

[Bcozzi71]

hmm no expert but seems like piston ring at the least my old f-150 blew a piston ring and had almost identical problems. It started and drove but just had no get up and go....might want to look for a swap or replace those rings...if you do one do them all

[deevergote]

F22B DOHC... F20B is more expensive than an H22.


Pull the head and find out for sure what the problem is. F22As are cheap, and they actually have a good deal of potential. Not that the F22B DOHC swap is a bad idea...

[slammedteg91]

heh, okay I'll pull the head off. Sorry for the typo lol I was talking about the F22B DOHC . Thanks for your help!

[HondaFan81]

Exhaust valve(s) could be burnt in cylinder # 3. It happened on my 91 EX F22a4 motor. I think it happened due to a valve stem seal going on those exhaust valves and leaking oil onto it causing hot spot on the valves and burnt them. I had metal missing on my valve head, hence no compression. It doesn't hurt you at this point to remove the cylinder head to find out. You either can get away with just replacing or rebuilding your head and have a good motor, worst case get another engine, but why not look before you spend more than you have to. You can recondition this head potentially with new exhaust valves in cyl # 3, then standard headwork (valve job, valve stem seals, resurface).

[Fake Thug]

Actually, you can pinpoint the problem without pulling the head. Unless you want to. Do your wet compression test first. See what happens. If #3 cylinder goes up in compression all of a sudden, that points(suggests) to the rings. If not, valve train/ cylinder head. I'm sure you know that already. But I'm talking about a leakdown test. After you wet test it, that is your next step. You need a leakdown tester and air compressor.

Pull the # 3 cylinder plug. Set it at TDC. Push compressed air through that cylinder(90 psi) and watch the leakdown gauge. 11% or more is bad. If you cant get a leakdown tester for whatever reason then just use compressed air and listen.

At the same time watch the compressor tank gauge and pay attention to how fast the gauge is dropping. If the air is blowing past your rings you will know when you pull the dipstick. If you see sprits of oil or just hear/feel a lot of air coming out the dipstick then your rings are done most likely.

If you hear blowby/hissing around the intake manifold, then your intake valves/seal/guides/seats for that cylinder are bad. If you feel or hear any bit of air coming out of the exhaust tailpipe, your exhaust valves/seals/guides for that cylinder are the problem. Last step, pop your radiator cap and watch. If you see bubbles the HG is leaking or the head is warped. If the antifreeze splurges out, the HG is obviously toast.

[Dom]

Actually, you can pinpoint the problem without pulling the head. Unless you want to. Do your wet compression test first. See what happens. If #3 cylinder goes up in compression all of a sudden, that points(suggests) to the rings. If not, valve train/ cylinder head. I'm sure you know that already. But I'm talking about a leakdown test. After you wet test it, that is your next step. You need a leakdown tester and air compressor.

Pull the # 3 cylinder plug. Set it at TDC. Push compressed air through that cylinder(90 psi) and watch the leakdown gauge. 11% or more is bad. If you cant get a leakdown tester for whatever reason then just use compressed air and listen.

At the same time watch the compressor tank gauge and pay attention to how fast the gauge is dropping. If the air is blowing past your rings you will know when you pull the dipstick. If you see sprits of oil or just hear/feel a lot of air coming out the dipstick then your rings are done most likely.

If you hear blowby/hissing around the intake manifold, then your intake valves/seal/guides/seats for that cylinder are bad. If you feel or hear any bit of air coming out of the exhaust tailpipe, your exhaust valves/seals/guides for that cylinder are the problem. Last step, pop your radiator cap and watch. If you see bubbles the HG is leaking or the head is warped. If the antifreeze splurges out, the HG is obviously toast.

wow awesome information!

copied to a test document!

[deevergote]

Either way, to fix it, the head has to come off. If the motor is going to be replaced completely, then identifying the problem isn't really necessary, aside from satisfying curiosity!

[NAiL05]

Either way, to fix it, the head has to come off. If the motor is going to be replaced completely, then identifying the problem isn't really necessary, aside from satisfying curiosity!

At least it will pinpoint the problem so you know whwere to look! BTW if you had a hole in a piston you would be gettin 0 compression. As mentioned wet test it and see if it goes up. You said it burns oil is it while your driving or idling?

[oranger]

Likely a burnt valve. Happened to me as well. Other things are possible, bad rings. 135 is realy low compression on all those. The rings are almost dead anyway. I dare you to boost it...it just blow up.

[Camurai]

Could still be a bad HG or a warped/cracked head.

I ended up with a cracked head on my Mazda pickup. Compression from the cylinder leaked into the coolant system and looked for the weakest point to escape - the overflow bottle. The pressure blew the cap off and sprayed coolant all over the engine compartment.

[slammedteg91]

First, oozingmachizmo, thank you so much for that post! I will definetly give that a shot before pulling the motor. Anyway, I did a little thinking today, and Im going for the H22A swap (but sticking with accord tranny for now). But, I am going to tear the old motor down and see what it was, and possibly fix it and sell it. Thanks for all the help/info guys, I'll let you know what it was as soon as I find out!