more whp/tq

[cleanjdm]

hey guys, imma total newb wen it comes to engines and stuff, but i try to learn. so heres the problem, i have a 91 auto with bolt ons(intake, dc header) and my exhast is 2.5 inch from the cat. now im thinkin that piping is alil too big, so i think im loosing alil power, especially on the low rpms, and since its an auto, that jes makes it worse. so my question is, wut can i do to hp wise, to compensate for that bigger piping? i want more power, but im not going to be racing, my car has some heavy 18's, a 100 pound sub box in the trunk, and soon gonna get air cylinders. i was thinking turbo, buti dont know wut else is involved when going that direction. like psi, injectors, intake manifold....so basically, i want more power for looks, and some good acceleration even when i have 4 ppl in the car.

[ExplodingCake]

Weight Reduction!

Remove A/C and Power steering.

[sackingz123]

those heavy rims and that hefty box in the back is hurting you.

[jhondayaaj]

I agree with above. because I don't have chrome rims, but I have a heavy ass box in my trunk.

[Playfirst]

hey guys, imma total newb wen it comes to engines and stuff, but i try to learn. so heres the problem, i have a 91 auto with bolt ons(intake, dc header) and my exhast is 2.5 inch from the cat. now im thinkin that piping is alil too big, so i think im loosing alil power, especially on the low rpms, and since its an auto, that jes makes it worse. so my question is, wut can i do to hp wise, to compensate for that bigger piping? i want more power, but im not going to be racing, my car has some heavy 18's, a 100 pound sub box in the trunk, and soon gonna get air cylinders. i was thinking turbo, buti dont know wut else is involved when going that direction. like psi, injectors, intake manifold....so basically, i want more power for looks, and some good acceleration even when i have 4 ppl in the car.

the car does look real nice with the rims!!....

[Losiracer2]

yeah weight is your issue IMO. I got some new lightweight forged wheels in the same size that weigh 4 lbs less per corner and the difference is noticeable. my powersteering reacts a lot quicker and i think i may be faster in acceleration. Braking has increased as well, i find that i dont have to push down as hard on the pedal to slow the car down.

[deevergote]

He has the rims and sub, removing AC and PS won't do much. As for the rims and sub, I think he wants to keep them.

So yeah, if you want decent power, turbo is the way to go (unless you want to swap in an H22, which would work well with the 2.5" piping)

Search in the Forced Induction and DIY forums for the DSM turbo setup. You can build a turbo setup for the F22 fairly inexpensively using Mitsubishi Eclipse (as well as Talon, Laser, Galant VR4, and old Evo) parts. You can run 6-8psi safely on a healthy F22 without upgrading anything (fuel pump might be a good idea, though) You HAVE to tune it, though. If you don't know anything about ECU tuning, I suggest you learn or find someone that can do it for you. An untuned turbo F22 is a bomb waiting to go off.

As for the auto tranny... the Accord autos aren't ideal for such increased torque. Converting to 5 speed would be best. If you want to keep the auto, at the very least flush the fluid and replace it with some good Honda ATF (even if you don't go turbo, thats a good idea at any time!) You can also upgrade the torque converter, or even have the entire transmission strengthened (Level10 is known for this, I think there near me in NJ). That's not cheap, though. I don't think we have any auto guys that have put considerable money into their auto transmissions.

[Jarrett]

Turbo or a swap are definitely good choices but either of those don't really seem to fit your desired end result. You said yourself you don't care about racing and if your car is weighed down with sub box and big flashy rims and soon to be equipped with an air ride suspension then spending the money seems like pissing in the wind. I'd just sit down and completely convince myself that dropping one or two thousand on going turbo or swapping is really what I wanted to do.

[deevergote]

Well, even when racing isn't the goal, having a responsive car is always enjoyable. My best friend had a turbo Jetta that was problematic. She got a brand new Ion, and hates how slow it is. She doesn't race. She has no clue what a turbo even is... but she misses that power.

[king29]

theirs a interesting thread on the three Main ideas of big horsepower gains on the diy's its Intake, Exhaust, Headers

the main concept here is to get as much air and fuel into your engine to put out big horsepower gains unless you wanna go with the H22 engine then i suggest the 2.5 piping isn't doing much good but robbing your horsepower, main points here get a free-flowing cat then change that piping and youll see a big difference in your hp also doing a good tune-up doesn't hurt anyone from buying royal Purple or greddy oil tune-up kits?? a cheap inexpensive way to get the very few hp outta your car but yeah the rims, subs a/c is still killing you may also read a thread on www.superhonda.com in performance it shows you the smartest way to reduce weight on your ride

[johnnyo032003]

try this...

probably a foot and a half in front of your rear axle... drop the pipe to 2". they put a 3" exhaust on a camaro and reduced it after about 2 feet to 2.5" and made 33 hp on it... you should see at least 7-10hp compared to what you have now... the other route is if you happen to have a n1 style straight through muffler can thing get rid of it or put a real muffler in front of it... a high performance muffler but still get some back pressure in that exhaust son i hate these weld on straight through bumblebee in a can pipes they make no power or torque...

[deevergote]

theirs a interesting thread on the three Main ideas of big horsepower gains on the diy's its Intake, Exhaust, Headers

the main concept here is to get as much air and fuel into your engine to put out big horsepower gains unless you wanna go with the H22 engine then i suggest the 2.5 piping isn't doing much good but robbing your horsepower, main points here get a free-flowing cat then change that piping and youll see a big difference in your hp also doing a good tune-up doesn't hurt anyone from buying royal Purple or greddy oil tune-up kits?? a cheap inexpensive way to get the very few hp outta your car but yeah the rims, subs a/c is still killing you may also read a thread on www.superhonda.com in performance it shows you the smartest way to reduce weight on your ride

A free flowing cat doesn't do all that much... the stock Honda cats are fairly free flowing by design. Regardless, it's better than hollowing out the cat (I hate when people say that helps... it hurts!)

There's also a sticky thread in the Racing forum here about weight reduction. It hasn't been edited for a while, but there's still some useful information in it. Someday I'll get back to updating it.

2.5" is a bit big for an F22, you're right. 2.25" is best. 2.5" is best for the H22. However, if you get some headwork done to the F22 head (ESP, who has a Member Shop here, has VERY reasonable prices), and add an upgraded camshaft, 2.5" will be good. 3" is best for turbo, but 2.5" won't be horrible. Turbos work best with the least restriction, so you almost can't go too big with a turbo exhaust.

probably a foot and a half in front of your rear axle... drop the pipe to 2". they put a 3" exhaust on a camaro and reduced it after about 2 feet to 2.5" and made 33 hp on it... you should see at least 7-10hp compared to what you have now... the other route is if you happen to have a n1 style straight through muffler can thing get rid of it or put a real muffler in front of it... a high performance muffler but still get some back pressure in that exhaust son i hate these weld on straight through bumblebee in a can pipes they make no power or torque...

Almost NO bolt-on mod will add 7-10hp without being very carefully engineered. Adding a bottleneck to an otherwise free-flowing system will usually diminish the performance. By narrowing the opening a bit in an extra-wide system, you can possibly increase flow velocity... but that would really only help with a system that was too wide for the engine (2.5" isn't really TOO wide... a taper to 2.25" would be interesting to see on a dyno, but I don't think it'd make a huge difference.)

As for "get some backpressure in that exhaust"... backpressure is bad. You do not want backpressure... ever. Anyone who says backpressure is necessary has no idea what they are saying. What you want is to have the largest possible exhaust with the highest flow velocity possible. Backpressure is NEVER good.

[cleanjdm]

yeah, thanx abunch deevs...
i was thinking now that i just may get some head work, chip, and cam.

[jhondayaaj]

yeah, thanx abunch deevs...
i was thinking now that i just may get some head work, chip, and cam.

check up on Gude performance. they make good head packages for a fair price. they are in so cal too. and I work on cars too so I can help.

[deevergote]

yeah, thanx abunch deevs...
i was thinking now that i just may get some head work, chip, and cam.

Don't get a "chip"... get either a standalone engine management system (expensive) or a modified stock ECU (a Civic's P06 is the most common for the F22 guys) and get it properly tuned. You won't need this until you do have some significant work done. Once you get headwork and a cam, it will be worthwhile. There are no premade "chips" that will do any good, especially for a fairly unsupported motor like the F22. Spoon and Mugen never made programs for the F22, yet you'll find Spoon and Mugen chips all over ebay. Premade chips will do nothing at best, and damage your engine at worst. Either get a proper tune, or don't touch the ECU.

A good header is also a great idea (the Bisimoto header should be released soon, with a price of $600-$700... but WELL worth the cost, as it should add considerably more power than any other header on the market).

The H23 intake manifold is also a nice addition.


With the H23 intake manifold (bored throttle body, if you'd like), some headwork, a cam, and a good header, that 2.5" exhaust would probably be justified. The F22 head responds very well to modification, and you can increase breathing considerably.


Gude/Bullfrog is good, but I've heard TERRIBLE things about their customer service. Explicit Speed Performance (ESP) has been in business for over 30 years, it's run by a father and son, and they post here on the board. The members that have dealt with them are extremely satisfied with their products and service. I don't know anyone on here that has had headwork done by them yet, though I fully intend to send an H22 head to them myself. Their prices are VERY reasonable, and I would go for their customer service reputation over Gude's any day! As for camshafts and valvetrain options, you can ask the ESP guys for direction, or you could purchase stuff from Bisimoto (the absolute authority on the F22)

Though the prices are reasonable, we're not talking dirt cheap... but if you're going to crack into your motor, spend a little extra and do it right! (also, with a modified F22A head PRIMOCB7 ran a 14.3 on drag radials The F22 has plenty of power to unlock!)