Delta Regrind on Practically Stock F22A6 car?

[NAiL05]

If you know what a regrind is it would help you out....And either way all the cams are reground the same. The numbers represent duration on the camshaft. So either a1/a4/a6 cam its all gonne have the same profile They just put more material on the cam and grind off of that. THe difference in between hp ratins is how the motor is tuned and what is done to them. And as mentioned SOHC VTEC/ DOHC VTEC heads arent really great on our motors. DOHC vtec would work but you need to upgrade the oil pump. And if you want a good F all motor build as mentioned already hondafan81. And another dude was going to do an all motor build. Your not gonna make 200hp like that as mentioned.

[deevergote]

The bigger grinds generally make more power up high. You don't really reach the proper ranges for those cams to be worthwhile. The 260 will add some power in a usable range.


Also, 10hp will be a little noticable, but it won't feel like you just dropped a V8 in there.


As for a transmission cooler on an automatic, it's a good idea. Even if you just plan on simple mods and a little spirited driving, Honda automatics aren't really the greatest things to beat on after 15 years of wear. If the transmission still feels healthy, change the fluid out for some Redline synthetic, and get a decent tranny cooler. I'll be doing that for my GTP very soon.

[prNonVtec4u]

so is that really the only conflict when a 272 regrind and an auto tranny are combined?

power levels? or does it have to do more with the long gears and power band?

(running a DOHC F22B with F22A auto tranny)

[deevergote]

Long gears aren't really the issue... it's the high rpms that matter. Bigger cams will often raise the powerband higher than the stock redline. The automatic transmission won't shift higher than that without some computer reprogramming. You CAN run a 272 with an automatic, but you won't see all the benefits of it. A 260 will give you more usable gains.

Think of it this way. If I told you I could do a simple mod to your stock engine that will let you make 50whp under 7000 RPM, but 500hp over 10,000 RPM, would you take it?

[prNonVtec4u]

great to know i was S O C L O S E to getting the 272 regrinds but i guess i can stick with the 260.....(even though i really wanted that crazy idle , lol)

and no, i wouldn't take it, lol

what would happen if i ran an H22 TCU though....

[owequitit]

Hondafan's red project made 152WHP on a Mustang dyno which typically measures lower than the standard Dynojet.

In fact that translated to VERY similar WHP numbers to every stock 5th gen Prelude that has been on that same dyno.

I agree about the 260.

It will probably give you the best overall performance with the least sacrifce.

You could also consider one of Bisi's mild grinds.

The Accord has a tranny cooler in the radiator stock, and it is in fact the same one used in Preludes, so I would say it is good until about 200HP, maybe a little more.

IMO, you will be just fine with your tranny by just making regular fluid changes, every 15-30K miles.

I personally recommend only OEM Honda ATF, but that is just based on my experience.

[KINGPIN33]

Nice info in here!

I guess I will consider the 260 to replace the A6 camshaft I got. It seems like a relatively cheap mod with good gains.

It seems you guys prefer bisi over delta, any particular reason?

Thanks.

[deevergote]

Bisi knows the F22. He races with it. Anything he makes for the F22 has a lot of R&D behind it.

Delta isn't an F22-specific company. I'm sure there is some thought behind their regrinds, but I'm also sure that they didn't spend too much time or money making the absolute best cam profile for a fairly unpopular motor. Good for $100, but Bisi's stuff is better.



As for the H22 TCU, that could work. It would certainly raise your shift points. If you plan on raising the redline for the F22 to make better use of a bigger cam, I would consider a valvetrain upgrade. The cam will already increase the lift and duration, so adding higher revs is just asking for valve float using those 15 year old valvesprings (that were never designed to go over the stock limits).

You could spend $100 on a camshaft and keep it at stock redline. The 260 for an aut would be best for this.

$100 on a camshaft, $300 on a valvetrain, and $100 on gaskets and seals... then you could raise the redline a bit (the bottom end, if in good condition, should be able to hold a bit higher). The 272 would work here.

The third option is to slap in a big cam, raise the redline, and spend $1000 rebuilding your engine when a piston meets a valve

[prNonVtec4u]

i mean cause i've seen Hondafan talkin about how he's taken his red project up to 7k - 7.5k even with no problem at all.... that's what got me thinking, you know....

that combo with an h22 tcu i think would work decent... but that's just me guesstimating you know

what do you think?

(ps. you mean $200 on cams, there's two to take care of here )

[owequitit]

If you were to start raising the redline, I would also consider having the exhaust ports ported and polished.

The 2 biggest limitation on flow for the F22 head are in order: 1) the camshaft 2) the exhaust port flow.

They flow around 165CFM stock, whereas the intake ports flow a lot more, so the ratio isn't ideal.

Based on what Cisco (Hondafan81) has learned, he said best bang for the buck on headwork would be to P&P the exhaust ports.

But then you may as well do other things to maximize the gain with the P & P work.

You can see how pretty soon you are spiraling out of control and have a full build on your hands...

For an auto, I would stick to a 260, or a mild Bisi, and then do the H23/F22A6 IM swap with H series TB and plenum, and then maybe a Bisi header, 2.5" full exhaust, and a 2.5" high flow cat.

I am pretty sure you would be pleasantly surprised with that setup, and it wouldn't cost much. If you don't P&P the head, the rest of the stuff would STILL give you a very big increase.

[owequitit]

i mean cause i've seen Hondafan talkin about how he's taken his red project up to 7k - 7.5k even with no problem at all.... that's what got me thinking, you know....

that combo with an h22 tcu i think would work decent... but that's just me guesstimating you know

what do you think?

(ps. you mean $200 on cams, there's two to take care of here )

If the bottom end is healthy, it can be done. Mine went to 6800 routinely with well over 200K, and his also has well over 200K.

Depending on what ECU you use, there is likely to be a rev limit somewhere between 6500-6800. That is probably the top end of the 260's powerband anyway, so that is something to consider if you want more revs.

Also, with the plenum, TB, and A6 stuff, mine used to shift right at redline, unless I manual shifted it to 6800.

[prNonVtec4u]

If the bottom end is healthy, it can be done. Mine went to 6800 routinely with well over 200K, and his also has well over 200K.

Depending on what ECU you use, there is likely to be a rev limit somewhere between 6500-6800. That is probably the top end of the 260's powerband anyway, so that is something to consider if you want more revs.

Also, with the plenum, TB, and A6 stuff, mine used to shift right at redline, unless I manual shifted it to 6800.

i say check out my headswap link and tell me what do you recommend

[prNonVtec4u]

don't mind me, come to think about it, i REALLY can't picture me shifting my tranny at 6800-7000, lol i'll stick with the 260 for sure

[gloryaccordy]

I would also recommend the H23 IM... your car will be choked otherwise.

[HondaFan81]

I should put this in my sig: single cam vtec sucks. The f22a head is considerably better. Don't be suckered by the VTEC.

Read Hondafan81's "red project" thread. That car has considerable work done to it, and is making about 145whp... It's his "mild" project, as he's shooting for 250whp with the white car he has... but still, that red one only makes 145 and it's heavily modified (and practically brand new... cisco is anal! ) 145whp is about 170 at the crank. Either way, you're going to need to surpass his setup to reach 200.

Also, for the cams... 272 is best for 5 speed, and 260 is best for auto. Also check out www.bisimoto.com for some camshafts as well. Bisi knows the F22A better than anyone.

Made 152 whp on Mustang roller dyno with red Accord. This red Accord project is a F22a1 motor and has improved intake & exhaust system, headwork and Delta 272 cam with tuned P06 ECU. The block is absolutely stock with stock 8.8 compression ratio tuned on 87 octance gas as well. It is my daily driver, I could have obviously gone more aggressive and I know I can make more power still on 87 octane, but I'm focused on my white Accord now. I also need to get a grabbier clutch for this car, the current one is slipping already when aggressive on it.