Delta Regrind on Practically Stock F22A6 car?

[deevergote]

I don't know where I got 145 from...

Even the mild Red build is fairly involved for the average tuner, but it certainly shows what gains can be had from moderate work, while retaining full streetability. I would also think that a Bisimoto header would be a bit of an improvement over that Kamikaze... though an ECU retune might be in order to fully realize it.

Still, 152whp on a Mustang dyno (as owequitit said previously, those dynos generally read lower than most, like the Dynojet) is quite impressive. An H22 generally only makes about 10whp more in good condition. At 26-29mpg, this fairly mild F22 build puts it damn near the H22 range!


Cisco, you should total up the cost of all your parts... or at least what they would normally cost, if you got yourself any sort of deal on them. I'm curious to see how much you spent!







And yes, a properly maintained and healthy F22A bottom end can rev well beyond the stock limits... but I'd still be afraid to do it on a regular basis. Without at least new OEM parts in the block, I wouldn't risk revving past the stock redline... especially if I had expensive headwork done! Not saying it WILL fail, but that it COULD fail (as could brand new, high quality components, actually...)

[Shadow1]

someone get me the website or the address to get my cam regrind. im glad i found this thread b/c i wanted some info about tuning for a delta regrind.

[Accordolictx]

Automatic tranny torque converter?

Long gears aren't really the issue... it's the high rpms that matter. Bigger cams will often raise the powerband higher than the stock redline. The automatic transmission won't shift higher than that without some computer reprogramming. You CAN run a 272 with an automatic, but you won't see all the benefits of it. A 260 will give you more usable gains.

Think of it this way. If I told you I could do a simple mod to your stock engine that will let you make 50whp under 7000 RPM, but 500hp over 10,000 RPM, would you take it?

I visited this web site called F22parts.com and I saw 3000 RPM Stall Torque Converter and I was wondering if something like this would help us with these gains we are seeking using our automatic transmissions?

*www.f22parts.com
*Our converters are very durable and locks up very hard for a fast launch at about 3000 RPMs. This is worth .50 of a second off you quarter mile E/T !!! That's one half second Faster ! And who ever said an automatic accord could never be fast is WRONG.



This item work best with an additional transmission fluid Cooler, witch have will have soon along with a reusable cleanable Filter kit for this that has an additional magnetic plug built in. (Copy and pasted from site)

[prNonVtec4u]

F22parts.com =

[prNonVtec4u]

i REALLY don't wanna picture my stock F22 auto tranny with 182,000 miles shifting at 6.8k-7k rpms, lol

[owequitit]

i REALLY don't wanna picture my stock F22 auto tranny with 182,000 miles shifting at 6.8k-7k rpms, lol

Mine did it for a long time. With up to 220K. The only thing different between me and most other auto monkeys is that I ALWAYS changed my fluid regular.

It was showing no unusual signs of stress...

[prNonVtec4u]

how'd you get to shift so high? h22 tcu?

[deevergote]

someone get me the website or the address to get my cam regrind. im glad i found this thread b/c i wanted some info about tuning for a delta regrind.

Took me .28 seconds to find it on Google. www.deltacam.com


Delta is the company that does it. So many people think it has something to do with the design... like many companies make delta regrinds.

[Shadow1]

can you actually use an H22 tcu in a cb7 that has an f22 tranny? ive never heard of that before!!! looks like ill be learning some stuff from this thread.

[deevergote]

I always say it's safe to assume that our 15 year old cars have been abused and not cared for in the past, unless you know the history of them. I personally don't know a thing about my car... it was hit and never reported, so carfax is clean... but there are aftermarket radiator supports and other replacement parts present.

In stock form, properly maintained, our engines and transmissions can withstand quite a beating. However, if they're not maintained properly, something will give. owequitit's car is a perfect example of what CAN happen... but not necessarilly what WILL happen. I just want to make sure that people don't take the experiences of one meticulous, knowledgable (and possibly lucky) owner to mean that they will experience the same thing.


My recommendation, before doing any significant mods to an automatic... change the fluid. Look for metal shavings, and see how discolored the fluid is. Put in some good Honda ATF, or even Redline ATF. Change the filter, add an additional transmission cooler (Jegs and Summit Racing have them cheap... like $40). Once everything is properly installed and filled, take it for a spin.

Now beat on it. Seriously... do to it what you would do with more power... if there are any signs of improper function at your current power, more power will only accelerate that failure. If it seems strong, perhaps it'll withstand some upgrades.


A higher stalling torque converter would be a good thing. I've been told that a hard shift is better for the transmission than a soft shift as well... soft shifts mean the clutch systems are taking on a lot of the friction, and wearing out more quickly. A high stall and a sharp shift will be like dumping the clutch in a manual transmission, rather than feathering it (feather a clutch from 4000 RPM and you're going to be replacing that clutch a lot sooner than expected!)

[deevergote]

can you actually use an H22 tcu in a cb7 that has an f22 tranny? ive never heard of that before!!! looks like ill be learning some stuff from this thread.

Yeah, all the TCU does is tell the tranny when to shift... the tranny will keep spinning in one gear until it blows up if there's nothing to tell it to shift! (Not sure if there are any mechanical safeguards to that... I'm not an auto expert, though with the GTP, I'm learning a little!)

[Shadow1]

My recommendation, before doing any significant mods to an automatic... change the fluid. Look for metal shavings, and see how discolored the fluid is. Put in some good Honda ATF, or even Redline ATF. Change the filter, add an additional transmission cooler (Jegs and Summit Racing have them cheap... like $40). Once everything is properly installed and filled, take it for a spin.

Now beat on it. Seriously... do to it what you would do with more power... if there are any signs of improper function at your current power, more power will only accelerate that failure. If it seems strong, perhaps it'll withstand some upgrades.

well i changed the tranny fluid in my tranny already(auto). i think i need a new tranny b/c when iit shifts it seems like it takes too long to get into the last gear or when i take off, before it goes into 3rd, it'll rev up about 1k or 1500rpms 1st then shift. is that normal or does show a sign of problems?

i used the castoil GTX ATF fluid when i changed it.

[owequitit]

I don't consider myself lucky with transmissions.

We have had multiple Honda auto trannies, not a single one of which has ever had any kind of trouble.

That includes my dad's 88 which is the poster child for automotive neglect.

It's first fluid change probably occured around 150K.

And it still shifts just fine. That one might be lucky, but none of the others were.

I will say that mine did have routine changes from day 1, so I am sure that helped, but even our 2002 Accord (that generation was NOTORIOUS for the tranny failing by 50,000 miles) had ZERO issues or symptoms when we traded it in just shy of 70,000.

Here is why you want to use OEM Honda fluid.

1) It is already synthetic.

2) It is designed and formulated specifically for their trannies.

Honda auto trannies DO NOT work like any other auto tranny. Most other trannies use bands and belts, whereas Honda uses wet clutch packs similar to a motorcycle, which is ultimately, where I think they got the basic design from.

So, if the fluid isn't specifically designed to work with THEIR tranny, then it may do more damage then help.

3) That is the biggest reason the 6th Accord trannies are so crappy. Wet clutches grab hard, resulting in firm shifts. Honda had been criticized for this, so they developed a way to use the lock up clutch on the torque converter to soften the shifts.

This added slipping on the torque converter clutch led to additional clutch debris in the system.

Eventually the debris clogged the hydraulic passages, causing line pressure to fall.

The reduced line pressure led to premature wear of the other clutches in the tranny, which in turn created still more debris.

Eventually, the tranny just fails, because it is no longer properly lubricating.

There is a filter inside that stops the debris, but it wasn't servicable, so you couldn't continuously remove the filter and clean or replace it, so that the line pressure didn't fall.

Increasing the fluid change interval to 12-15K helped as well, since that helps flush out the debris inside the tranny. If it was a little brown, I changed it.

Yeah, it is more maintenance, but it beats changing the tranny, and it seemed to have worked.

4)The solution was the 3 shaft 5 speed that they are currently putting in all their vehicles and not having any trouble with.

They had a bearing issue very early on, but that was recalled, fixed, and subsequently added to all trannies built after it. They haven't had any problems since, and a variation of that tranny is used in all vehicles powered by a V6 and an auto. Including Acura.

5) Even though my tranny WAS maintained, I can guarantee that it lived a harder life than 99% of all other Honda trannies out there.

All I did was change the fluid, and that is apparently all it needed.

6) The only 2 fluids approved for use in Honda trannies is Honda ATF (of course) and Dexron II or its replacement.

Dexron II will eventually destroy the shift quality.

[Accordolictx]

well i changed the tranny fluid in my tranny already(auto). i think i need a new tranny b/c when iit shifts it seems like it takes too long to get into the last gear or when i take off, before it goes into 3rd, it'll rev up about 1k or 1500rpms 1st then shift. is that normal or does show a sign of problems?

i used the castoil GTX ATF fluid when i changed it.

That doesn't sound like a problem with your tranny. Is it in sports mode because I hear that will make the car shift later around 4000- 4500 RPM's instead of around 3000 RPM's when not using overdrive. I have an automatic tranny myself and when I started adding bolt ons I noticed that it change were the car shifts naturally for both modes. I think you would notice the tranny slipping or metal shavings would be everywhere if you were really having a problem with the tranny. I think that's why deevergote recommended pushing the car as hard as you can to see if you notice anything slipping or something not working like it should. If you can't push the car hard with the stock engine on your stock tranny, you won't be able to push the car hard with bolt ons or other serious upgrades until you upgrade the tranny first.

[prNonVtec4u]

owequitit:
- but how was it that you made your auto tranny shift at 6.8k - 7k rpms though?