CB7 Dirt track car Engine

[sirwes99]

Hey guys this is my first post even though i come here daily the only site that has answered all my questions since i built my first Honda Dirt Oval car.

Now i have a question pertaining to my new Dirt Oval car that i'm plaining on building.

First off i'm going to grab another 90-93 Accord (Sticks in the turns like its on rails no other car i have drove will do it at 100% throttle). I notice that the car i have now from a green flag will out pull all the other cars by 3 car lenghts meaning if i start 3rd normally when turn 1 comes up i'm in 1st or second. But i have one problem Once we are in the race i can't pull on these guys even though they are sliding in the turns and i'm not i dont have the ponies to make the pass unless they mess up horribly. This class is supposed to be stock but the techs are shadetree and no nothing about 4bangers especially the VW rabbits.

These Rabbits are not run of the mill one guy i talk to runs one and he said its all legal till its caught and he is running a newer Jetta engine in it which is like throwing a crotch rocket motor on a go-Kart. The VW's are running big cams and rev like a rx7.

So the main question is if these guys are pushing so much more ponies then me and lighter then me what swap can i do to grab some more passing torque. ATM when i get to the end of the straight aways my Rev limiter is hitting like a jack hammer but i dont lose much off that since its right before the turn which i lift off for maybe half a second then hammer back at 100% throttle. I dont wanna go and mod the hell out of the F22A1 cause if they check for port work etc.. which they wont i will be busted it would be easier to get away with a different motor that is stock. Also i only run 2nd gear i can't pull it in 3rd and stay competitive.

summary of problems:

RF only pulls (blew CV last saturday the pit ride was boring no movie)

Not enough ummph to out pull the cars on a straight

Rev limiter not a huge deal sounds fun but still i guess it being higher would be better

I need a Engine that A)Has alot more power so i can pull track in third B)A engine that has a ton of power up high where i stay most of the time around 5-6krpm in 2nd gear.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[sirwes99]

no one has any advice at all ? i would have posted this in the swaps but me not having 30 post i can't.

Someone has to have some experience in racing these

[deevergote]

A lot of people have experience... but those people also work during the day Have some patience!

There's a dirt track really close to me... if I can't get into NASA road racing soon, I'll consider doing that!



Anyway, what are you allowed to do? You can swap in an H22 engine (Prelude). 200hp out of the box, and not TOO expensive. I have one in my car now, and it's great.
The F22A actually flows really well, so you could have the head worked. An F22 head from a junkyard is quite cheap, and headwork isn't too expensive. You can get a cam from Bisimoto, or go the cheap route and get a Delta regrind.
Get a decent header (Bisimoto again, though not cheap), use an H23 intake manifold (more flow), get a free flowing exhaust... That engine just needs to breathe!

As for the issue with just the RF turning... that's because the CB7 comes with an open differential. Check out Quaife for an LSD unit to fix that problem.

You'll probably want to stay with the F22 transmission for higher top speed... the H22 transmission, while very good, has shorter gearing.

[sirwes99]

Here are the rules:

Pure Pony - 2006

Engine

Four (4) Cylinder Only

1. Engine must be factory stock, in stock position, for make of car.

2. Stock type pistons. Maximum bore .030 inches

3. Factory intake.

4. Two (2) barrel carburetor - 1 inch adapter permitted, measured from top of intake to the
base of carburetor.

5. Stock fuel pump.

6. Stock exhaust - No headers allowed.

7. No porting or polishing of heads or intakes.

8. Stock camshaft and stock crankshaft.

9. Stock transmission.

10. Stock rear ends - Locked rear end O.K.

11. No aluminum flywheels, stock clutch and pressure plate.

12. Fuel Injection O.K. No Turbo’s.

13. No Nitrous Oxide Or Alcohol Allowed.


BODY

1. Any two (2) or four (4) door, four (4) passenger sedan or station wagon,
foreign or domestic, between 90 inch and 105 inch wheel base.

2. Full stock body with stock bumpers.

3. Stock firewall and stock floor pan.

4. Stock front windshield. Without windshield, a safety screen must cover the entire
windshield area with at least two (2) safety bars. ALL Other GLASS REMOVED.

5. MUST HAVE FULL ROLL CAGE.

6. Weight: 2,000 lbs. with driver at any time.


WHEELS, TIRES, BRAKES AND SUSPENSION

1. Stock type steel wheels. Six (6) inch maximum. No aluminum wheels.

2. Street tires ONLY - eight (8) inch maximum width. Racing Recap
acceptable.

3. Stock Brakes.

4. Stock suspension, in stock position. Required. Heavier springs will be
allowed, but MUST REMAIN IN ORIGINAL POSITION.


But as i stated no one is close to legal and will openly tell you what they are running.

Headers would be a no go since the tech can spot those a CAI is also a no go anything external that is easily noticed can not be used different motor would be harder for them since they would have to research it.

So there is no way to lock the differential to be posi, Doesn't the H22A tranny a true LSD?

[Leung]

i'd just do the P&P and not tell anyone. really now are they going to bust open your engine and look inside to see if you had that done?

which engine do you have right now?

[Smokinspeeds]

The H22a isn't going to have an lsd most of the time. It's a special order. You can even get an f22ax manual or automatic with lsd, just very rare. Special options basically, so they are hard to find. LEss you just go ahead and get the Quaife (sp?) lsd, where they build it to be lsd if I remember correctly. Some things you can do internally would be head swap if it isn't already an f22a6 model, making sure all the seals are good, and removing AS MUCH weight as possible. A guy on here has gotten a 2dr down to just under 2100lbs. Get a Dx if you can, the lightest cb7, remove everything in the engine bay you won't use (search for weight removing threads' it's all be done before) run Full synthetic (the motor can't already be smokin through the exhaust or it'll probably get worse if you don't replace the seals) you can get K&N stock airbox filters that'll let more air in, you can take out the empty 'container' from under the front bumper/battery area that just circulates air into the airbox and rig a piping system to get more air into the stock airbox without them being able to see it. ALso you could probably get a chipped ecu from one of the members on this board that does tuning for our cars with a decent map that can get you a few more ponies. Also for a bit better exhaust flow make sure you have the stock muffler with two holes going out rather than one like my lx first had, you could perhaps look for a 'stock' muffler from a different vehicle entirely that flows a bit better (like from a v6 car) and you can take off the stock Catalytic converter and crush and or remove the material inside to make it nearly hollow. You will lost a bit of torque, but gain a bit of hp in the higher rpms which if you are often near redline and full throttle will be your better choice. Also if you can get away with a cam, do it, along with the chipped ecu so your car can really use the cam and you'll get a definate gain. If you can use different wheels look for some lighter weight rims (not huge).

My .oo2

[deevergote]

The H22A does have LSD, yes... some of them, anyway (I don't think any USDM models did.. just the JDM ones)

I believe you can weld the differential, but I don't know exactly how.





Get the H23 intake manifold (I forget if it's just the plenum and tb, or if it's the whole thing...)... that's something a non-expert won't be able to identify as being non-stock. Depending on what engine you have, the F22A4 exhaust manifold is a tubular header, unlike the F22A1 and A6. The A4 is in the 90-91 EX.

You can get a modified P06 ECU from a 92-95 Civic DX/LX and tune your engine for a little more power... and remove the rev limiter (though you don't want to rev too high with a stock valvetrain)

[Accord R33]

You'll probably want to stay with the F22 transmission for higher top speed... the H22 transmission, while very good, has shorter gearing.

I dont think he is hitting top speed on a dirt track. he said he wasnt even getting out of second gear.

shorter gears = faster acceleration, thats what you need.

If the rabbits are running swapped motors. get a motor swap.
If the rabbits are running big cams. get big cams.

At least if you win, and the do decide to research the car, you can ask them to check out the runners up.

You're already at a disadvantage in that your car weighs like 3 times that of the rabbit.

[deevergote]

Still, if he's hitting the rev limiter in 2nd gear with the F22 transmission, the H22 transmission will be sooner. Maybe not top speed in 5th gear, but top speed in 2nd.

[Smokinspeeds]

Still, if he's hitting the rev limiter in 2nd gear with the F22 transmission, the H22 transmission will be sooner. Maybe not top speed in 5th gear, but top speed in 2nd.

Exactly. And shifting takes time, less shifts may be to his advantage.

as for the weight, strip everything off you don't need, it's a track car. Should easily be able to get 500+ lbs off stock weight.

[owequitit]

I would do the following.

1) H23 intake manifold w/ Throttle body and plenum (will even mate to the stock airbox tube).

or

An F22A6 Intake manifold (easier to locate) with an H series plenum and TB.

Either one will look completely stock and factory and most "Honda guys" can't tell it's there.

There are DIY's on both in the DIY section.

Throw a bisi moto phenolic IM gasket on there while you have it apart. That will bring intake temps down a few degrees.

2) F22A6 cam or Delta 260 regrind. The A6 cam is stock, so they will never know its there. The 260 is good for about 15% power, but may have a slightly lopey idle. I don't know how obvious it would be though.

3)F22A4 exhaust manifold. It looks like a header, so you would probably get a little resistance on this, but it IS factory, so just make sure you have proof that it is. If you put the heat shield on it, they will never know.

4) Tuned ECU. Throw a chipped and tuned P06 in there, and they will never know. That will help you wring that last little bit out of it.

It would also allow you to bump the rev limit up to about 7K, which should be safe with either one of the above mentioned cams.

5) Maintenance. Hondas need their valves kept in adjustment. Long or frequent periods of high RPM driving will result in the valve clearances needing to be readjusted more often. This makes a HUGE difference in the overall peformance of the car.

6) EX exhaust system. This is the most free flowing stock Accord exhaust available.

You could try something more free flow like an RSX Type S muffler, with custom piping, but that would probably be obvious.

7) Put a K&N air filter in the stock airbox and then replace the 2 tubes going into it with peices of PVC pipe.

Or you can take the pipes out altogether, and hack the bottom out. This method will make it sound like a short ram intake though.

[owequitit]

As long as he is in his powerband, at the speeds he is seeing on the track, the gearing won't really matter.

[sirwes99]

wow you guys are really giving me some great ideas.

The exhaust is cut off right after the mesh stuff no cat converter is on it (the one i drive now anyways)

Also its a F22A1. And yes at about 5K it starts smoking a little its not horrible but it is smoking. The motor currently in it is stock and has over 240k miles on it =P figured i would break it before i rebuilt it which will probly be soon every run it smokes a little more.

Oh yeah forgot to mention everything in the interior is stripped besides dash and blower box (i know i need to get rid of it but i cant really get to it with the roll cage in). I have a fuel cell, Race seat, Harness, Roll bars. AC is gone debating the PS pump. I wheighed in at 2590 last weekend and that was after a solid week of stripping even more off it from the week before when it was 2695lbs. I really dont know what else i can take off i mean i even peeled the tar stuff off and removed all the heat shield from up under the car.

[19dabeast85]

Have you removed things like the window motor/regulators, door panels, glove box, heater core, speakers and radio, middle console, etc...cruise actuator and abs system(if it has these).

P.S. post some pictures up so we can see it!

[sirwes99]

rgr doors have been cut as well where only the outside skin is left, heater core no, all glass is removed, glove box no. reason for the blower motor glove box heater core is because the roll bars are up against the dash.

I will try and post some pics tomorrow. I have a race tomorrow night so i will be prepping it in the morning but i will try to take a couple pics before i go.

BTW the wheight is with me in it 2590 i wheigh 220lbs