Building the bottom end for turbo

[deevergote]

I've known 250whp with that setup (MRX got there, I believe). Of course, there are many factors that come into play, so you may be at 275.


Either way, 250-ish is a good estimate for 10psi and good tuning. More than enough for a 2800lb FWD car to be fun!

[Dep22build]

I've known 250whp with that setup (MRX got there, I believe). Of course, there are many factors that come into play, so you may be at 275.


Either way, 250-ish is a good estimate for 10psi and good tuning. More than enough for a 2800lb FWD car to be fun!

those factors include portmatched heads, reground cam = to a delta 282, AEM highflow fuel rail, 680cc injectors 3inch dp to full 3inch exhaust.

WEll we will see if it is very possible to be running 275ish on the dyno day.

[jyoungblood87]

10 is probably the safe, sensible limit for someone that knows a bit about tuning. I wouldn't risk more than that, simply because the motors are so old. If you did a FULL stock rebuild, 12psi daily would probably be safe.

If 8-10psi is all you want, just spend your money on a t3/t4 turbo and a good wastegate. Then be VERY meticulous tuning it! A properly sized turbo will keep heat levels to a managable level, and a good tune will make things safe. You may still have issues, but be prepared and you shouldn't blow the motor... at least not for a while! If you do, just save up while you're driving it so you can afford to build it when it does blow!

wats wrong with a turbo with an internal wastegate...if boosting so little pounds...

[jyoungblood87]

also...how good are the stock sleeves for the f22a block...?

[drummersteve7]

same deal with me.

hey brotha I also plan on redoing an a6 I got the engine tranny and pt6 ecu for 200 bucks thanx to djcb. Such a deal. But the engine is sitting on the crate in my garage since I dont have an engine stand yet. I do have a cherry picker tho. Anyways I am gunna totally redo this cause my car is an LX and I have the a1 in there now.

My plans:
Darton mid-sleeves
85.5mm wiseco forged 8.8:1 pistons
Lower the deck height of the block
Port and polish the head
Stainless Valves
Delta 272 cam
h23 plenum on f22a6 runners
850cc injectors
and more.

Later guys!

Steven

[jyoungblood87]

hey brotha I also plan on redoing an a6 I got the engine tranny and pt6 ecu for 200 bucks thanx to djcb. Such a deal. But the engine is sitting on the crate in my garage since I dont have an engine stand yet. I do have a cherry picker tho. Anyways I am gunna totally redo this cause my car is an LX and I have the a1 in there now.

My plans:
Darton mid-sleeves
85.5mm wiseco forged 8.8:1 pistons
Lower the deck height of the block
Port and polish the head
Stainless Valves
Delta 272 cam
h23 plenum on f22a6 runners
850cc injectors
and more.

Later guys!

Steven

dam...that sounds like its gonna be a nasty setup...

[LiquidIC]

850cc injectors... planning on 22+psi?????

[jyoungblood87]

yea ur right those are some huge azz injectors...much b some crazy boostin plan...

[deevergote]

Won't lowering the deck height raise the compression? And a 272 isn't really a great turbo cam... I mean, it can be done, but turbos like low overlap... the Delta 272 is made for NA. I would look into a boost-specific cam. High lift, minimal overlap.

[drummersteve7]

Won't lowering the deck height raise the compression? And a 272 isn't really a great turbo cam... I mean, it can be done, but turbos like low overlap... the Delta 272 is made for NA. I would look into a boost-specific cam. High lift, minimal overlap.

Your right it def raise the compression...dont want that. This is my first turbo setup and all I know is what I read and comprehend myself, so I could use tips from smarter personnel. I read it wrong I guess. As far as the cam, I am sure your right again. I have done a bunch of research, but from what I have been hearing that is the best way to go. Unles I can find different info.

Later guys! Steven!

[deevergote]

Find some info about how an engine breathes... NA and turbo.


Sadly, I see a lot of people doing a lot of stupid things... and because they haven't blown up their motors yet, people use them as a reference (I'm not referring to anyone in particular here...). Hell, Accord R33, who is considered one of the most knowledgable and influential people on this site, built a turbo system from junkyard parts... It worked... but even he says on occasion that he's surprised it lasted so long!

Learn the theories behind the things you'll be doing to your car. Internet hearsay and the luck of a few are a VERY bad way to gauge your own success! It's a good place to start... and your list ISN'T a bad start, Steve... but the best way to do things is to break that list down and learn about every part, and how it will help you achieve your goal. Untill you understand the function of every part, you won't know if it's right or not! 850cc injectors aren't necessary for anything but a BIG turbo setup. If you want a 10-12psi daily driver, DSM 450cc injectors (or a nice new set...) would be sufficient.


www.cb7tuner.com/bookstore.htm
I would check out Honda/Acura Engine Performance for the basics, and a good start on turbo knowledge. Then I would get Maximum Boost by Corky Bell for the details (it even has an install walkthrough... on a Miata, but close enough!)
Read those two books cover to cover, and you'll be in the top 20% of the class here at CB7tuner Do you know how much more smoothly things would run here if everyone read those two books?


Seriously, though... figure out what your target horsepower would be. That'll give you an idea of what parts to get. You'll want to figure out the proper sized turbo, exhaust diameter, clutch, ECU tuning (there's a good book on that on that page too), injector size, cam specs, headwork... Hell, I even had a very knowledgable tuner tell me that a turbo head should only be polished, not ported. I don't doubt that this guy knows his stuff (he's Accord SiR's friend), but that's even something I would feel the need to look into before I took it for fact.

[407accord]

So Since i've joined this site I've been trying to do what people say(read and search) but this is so confusing.

So what are arp headstruts?

Also how much difference is a turbo at 10 psi to 25 psi(let's say thats the variable and all engine internals are the same) what would be the differnece in hp? how big is it?

[90EX]

wats wrong with a turbo with an internal wastegate...if boosting so little pounds...

Nothing is wrong… sometimes all of the exhaust cant bypass the housign so there be the occasional boost creep when accelerating. Porting will help eliminate that. I can go on, but there is nothing to worry about really, especially where you have things like boost cut in crome.

[deevergote]

Internal wastegates are fine for low boost... if they are in good condition. Many people will use an OLD Mitsubishi turbo with an internal wastegate... that is still using the original factory parts.

If the wastegate fails, you're likely to blow your motor. If you're racing some jackass on the highway (not that I condone that...) and you find yourself winning, you might not take that split second to wonder WHY you're winning... it could be because your wastegate spring failed, and you're boosting 25psi! Wastegates are MUCH cheaper than new motors!

Internal wastegates are also limited to the amount of boost they can safely handle. As 93EX says, porting will help... but you can only do so much. For your plans, an internal wastegate would suffice... just make sure it's in good condition. Rebuild it, or have it rebuilt to be safest.



407accord, ARP head studs (studs, not struts) are simply that... studs that hold the cylinder head on. The OEM setup for the cylinder head uses bolts. Stretch-bolts to be exact. They stretch to ensure proper torquing is done, without overtorquing. A great design for the stock motor. However, when you're boosting, or raising the compression to unnatural levels, the stock head bolts can sometimes give. See, they're only screwed into the block, providing unequal pressure. This is where the studs come in. Studs provide more equal pressure over the length of the stud. They are much stronger, and can hold in more pressure (I'm simplifying, as I realize I'm beginning a novel here!) They're a more secure way to attach the head to the block.

As for 10-25psi... that depends on the turbo. The general rule of thumb with turbo is 10hp for every 1psi... so using that rule, that'd be a 150hp difference.
Still, there are MANY different types of turbo. Many sizes, many styles, AR, etc... there are many factors involved.

Again, I refer to the books I mentioned above. They explain things very well, especailly Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima. Very good for the beginner. I assure you, you'll come away from reading that book knowing more than the majority of the people on this site. It's still beginner knowledge, but it's a good start!

[jyoungblood87]

Internal wastegates are fine for low boost... if they are in good condition. Many people will use an OLD Mitsubishi turbo with an internal wastegate... that is still using the original factory parts.

If the wastegate fails, you're likely to blow your motor. If you're racing some jackass on the highway (not that I condone that...) and you find yourself winning, you might not take that split second to wonder WHY you're winning... it could be because your wastegate spring failed, and you're boosting 25psi! Wastegates are MUCH cheaper than new motors!

Internal wastegates are also limited to the amount of boost they can safely handle. As 93EX says, porting will help... but you can only do so much. For your plans, an internal wastegate would suffice... just make sure it's in good condition. Rebuild it, or have it rebuilt to be safest.



407accord, ARP head studs (studs, not struts) are simply that... studs that hold the cylinder head on. The OEM setup for the cylinder head uses bolts. Stretch-bolts to be exact. They stretch to ensure proper torquing is done, without overtorquing. A great design for the stock motor. However, when you're boosting, or raising the compression to unnatural levels, the stock head bolts can sometimes give. See, they're only screwed into the block, providing unequal pressure. This is where the studs come in. Studs provide more equal pressure over the length of the stud. They are much stronger, and can hold in more pressure (I'm simplifying, as I realize I'm beginning a novel here!) They're a more secure way to attach the head to the block.

As for 10-25psi... that depends on the turbo. The general rule of thumb with turbo is 10hp for every 1psi... so using that rule, that'd be a 150hp difference.
Still, there are MANY different types of turbo. Many sizes, many styles, AR, etc... there are many factors involved.

Again, I refer to the books I mentioned above. They explain things very well, especailly Honda/Acura Engine Performance by Mike Kojima. Very good for the beginner. I assure you, you'll come away from reading that book knowing more than the majority of the people on this site. It's still beginner knowledge, but it's a good start!

dam...deev is laying the knowledge... but 407accord...only take the posts that people put only 70% true...just take wat people are saying as a starting guide...for instances...wat deev just said, (which i can
agree with MOST of it)...but from wat he said...i will pick up them books and start reading, learning on my own...and then from those books i will read others as well...
this is just like Fast and Furious( the first one)...when i first saw the movie in my ignorant days...i basically took everything they said and done was true...but now when i watch that movie again...i cant believe all the bullsht that was said and done in the movie...because now im much more knowledgable about cars...(i think)... but its still one of my favorite movies...