f series motor x-changes

[10thcb7]

Im new and have few post left so ill make it as informed as I can. First let me greet everyone. Sup...

My plan and budget is to get an all out OEM motor together

in other words:

what is the largest thorttle body with cruise that will fit the f22a1.

What f series came with short runners?

Wht plenum has the most ample capacity?

What F SOHC head has the best flow or capacity?

what F SOHC non-vtec cam was the best for NA ?

what F SOHC non-vtec cam is best for a Z32 Turb?

What F series had the shortest stroke?

What f-h exhaust manifold is the largest?

What accord-lude b-pipe has the best flow?

If no one can answer any questions. Comment on were i could find this info.

I would like a better head flow with higher revs... bored/destroked/blue print/balanced/nitride/shotpeen/stress relieve/extrude hone 155-185 flywheel hp in NA form. prior to z32 turbo on 9.5:1 c/r with p06 and exhaust.

When i get a chance ill figure my f22a1 auto cam size & measure my crusie control t/b /plenum size/runner length/ outside diameter b pipe and exhaust manifold. The key to power is knowlege. we should share it . F series to the MAX.

f-h series
HELP !!! a cb7 brother out.
****** i relavant ********
10thcb7<--- ran a brand new po6 out of a 93 civic auto 1.5 sohc. In a f22a1 with even compression. It took various cranks and runs to keep it idleing right. After a few more runs it still ran like shit. I turned it off and smoke spweed out the muffler and cracked my mid pipe. Then threw a code 43 and a code 1 .
Really with an intake and iridium plugs there isnt enough mods to support the p06. I think a header/cat/exhaust/ and a vacuum sens. fuel reg could help support the p06 auto soch 1.5 ecu. the timing map is really shitty too .The rev from 1.5k-4k is really sloppy if anything at 4k till 6k it felt more like the stock ecu ... I dunno but ab ib ab arabbit thats all folks.

team oreilly champ

[The G-Man]

Eh. I am slightly confused. But I do know that the one with the shortest stroke is going to be from an overseas F18, because it like has less displacement.

Did you say you tried to run an un-modified p06 on an F22A1?

[10thcb7]

what confused you ? I just want the sizes of those items. Any parts that will exchange f18-f20-f22-f23- and the h series and there specifications. My only preferance for the head/cam/intakemanifold/ is not vtec and non IAB
I wanna hear more about an f18 or similar tell me more....!
*****SOME RELEVANCE********
Yes dude i ran a 93 f22a1 AUTO with a VIRGIN (absolutely no previous runs had been made on the ecu) 93 CIVIC AUTO 1.5 sohc non-vtec Po6 computer. It push alot of fuel through the exhaust. because when i turned it off smoke seekd out the muff and the mid pipe near the gas tank.
Also it threw a code 1 (oxygen content) and code 43 (fuel system malfunction) in Po6 standard...scaryy!! also up a 40 degree hill for 1/8 mile it back fired out the intake.
did they make a f20 sohc in USDM ? what stroke?

[The G-Man]

No. The only motors that came in the US were 2.2L. Which is good because all our motors were the top tier motors in the cars.

[F22HB]

So you wanna take all the best non-aftermarket parts off different oem (+jdm?) engines and put them all together? I guess you could get away with using the stock head and just port and polish it. That still counts as oem right?

[10thcb7]

Im in the very outter skirts of DFW. We dont get visual inspections but they started doing checks for emmisions and cats. which b4 was not heard of.
So i figure I take all the best OE parts and put em together with their emmssions intact raise the c/r. Make it look stock and to the the naked eye this kid with a sleeper just got passed "the man" . Yes i would like to get a port and polish to all the items. With a 3 inch cat 2.5 inch pipe and a 3 inch "oval box" type muffler. If any one says cat back exhaust are illegal thats not true b/c in the repair manuals it says they can be replaced it doesnt say to OE. Headers and b pipes are illegal if they arent 50 state compliant. and a cat is a cat even if its hollowed or hi- flo 3 inch. Me i love my air.

obd1 is the best

[deevergote]

If you are interested in F22 performance, I would concentrate on everything done by Bisi Ezerioha (his name on here is bisimoto, same name as his company). He probably knows more about the F22 than Honda engineers themselves! I wouldn't bother him with PMs until you do some research of your own, though.

The F22A head (the stock head of any CB7 motor) has the ability to flow very well.

By using an H23 intake plenum, you can run a larger-bore H23 throttle body (www.maxbore.com can make it as big as you need). The plenum has a greater capacity as well.

No F22A intake manifolds were really designed for performance, so if you want shorter runners, you're better off fabricating your own. This would also give you the ability to choose your plenum size, and use any throttle body you want.

Best NA cam... again, check out www.bisimoto.com. Their cams are made by Web, so they are quality stuff, and the designs have years of F22 research into them. Bisi runs mid-9s with his NA carb'd F22A in an Insight shell, so he clearly is doing something right!

Z32 turbo? By Z32, are you referring to the Nissan 300zx? Or is there a turbo that goes by that designation that I am not aware of?

Shortest stroke? I don't know the specs of many of the overseas F series, but I would say the F18 would be a safe bet.

If you want exhaust flow, I suggest you don't bother with anything stock. F series manifolds aren't designed for power, but low-end torque and fuel economy... as well as cost of production. A cheap ebay header is probably better than any stock manifold. Custom is your best bet. Once again, www.bisimoto.com for NA applications. If you want turbo, a stock DSM manifold will work as a starter manifold with minor modification. Custom is best there as well.

HondaFan81, a moderator here, is currently making about 155whp with his mildly build NA F22. 185 shouldn't be too hard to do with some time, money, and proper planning.
However, building an NA F22 that puts out nearly 75whp over stock will NOT be a good candidate for turbo without some major rebuilding. NA head porting isn't good for turbo. Any exhaust manifold you have will be discarded. ECU tuning will be useless. Cam specs will not be good for turbo (turbo likes little to no overlap, NA requires significant overlap)

It sounds as if you've learned plenty about the various things that make power, but not WHY they make power. You're going in the right direction, but further research would benefit you greatly, before you dump money into parts that may not be what you really need in the end!





Also, when you mentioned that ECU. You're using a virgin P06 to run an F22? As in, an ECU that is designed to run a D15? As I stated before, you have only part of the necessary information... the P06 is only usable when you modify it. You have to install a socket and a chip containing a proper F22 fuel map. That chip should be programmed to properly run your engine as it is. A completely stock P06 will do nothing but harm to your engine. The ECU itself is not what you want... it's the fact that it is easy to modify (and commonly modified) that makes it desirable.


F20C is the first generation S2000 engine... it doesn't apply to the F series that we are concerned with. It shares very little in common.


If you need to pass emissions, you'll need a cat. Plus, pretty much any significant headwork will probably make an emissions sniffer go nuts. If you plan on running with as little restriction as possible, get a high-flow cat (www.smsproducts.com has good ones... don't go with ebay crap) or a straight pipe. Hollowing out your cat will only create excess backpressure, which will hurt performance significantly. JDM high compression parts will not necessarily pass emissions. Just because they are OEM doesn't mean they are US legal. I have a pretty much bone stock JDM engine in my car, and it will not pass a US smog test in any state.

There is no need to go from 3" to 2.5" and back to 3" in your exhaust. That bottleneck will also hurt performance (especially before the 2.5"). Honestly, 2.25" is all you're going to need in the beginning. Any bigger will kill your low end. Eventually you'll want to go bigger, but you don't want to have an exhaust so large that your motor doesn't truly make power until 5500rpm. You may like your air, but a huge exhaust doesn't always help. The important thing is keeping exhaust velocity as high and stable as possible.

[10thcb7]

Thanks for the response ... Real concern coming from yea...
I noticed bisimoto first when I saw some one mention that the kamakazee was an inferior manifold. I visited the site and it seems like that dude is really putting in some man hours.
I dont want to PM him untill i get some Douh cuz im sure hes a very business oreintated man.

From what I gathered from you, the a6 a1 and a4 head/ intake and exhaust manifolds all identical ?

I figure the F's didnt come with wide ports and short runners but I wanted to find a OE peice that favored the description. If no ill custom fab my OE.

For the camshaft I didnt think there would be much more of a differnce in the 90-96 accords but i just wanted to go OE. It will one day run a turbo.

When i speak on the z32 its off a flipped fairlady. i salvaged the largest T3 made. Honest.

With the stock header ill save money for the FI setup. I'm just looking for a fun car to drive will Im prepping/rebuild my 295xxx mile engine. LOL

We carry 2nd GEN DSM MANI's at work and they run 150. That might be a good alternative.

As far as your JDM setup is it all stock retaining whatever JDM emissions came with it?

As for the exhaust like I said im prepping the setup. Last thing i want to do is run everything 1/4 then have to go to a 3inch sys later on.

Yeah that po6 was not what i thought it was going to be. But for any one reading that warry about it . On a 93 accord with out IAB With a Auto a AUTO Po6 will runn your motor... like crap.... till you tune.

[deevergote]

A1/4/6 heads are the same. A6 intake mani is the best (IABs) and A4 exhaust mani is best (tubular). Still, the gains with just those stock pieces won't be significant. The A4 exhaust manifold and A6 intake manifold with the H23 plenum and throttle body will be the best stock combination. For $100 and a core (cheap at a junkyard) you can get a cam regrind from Delta that will give a little power as well.

A used stock t3 might not be the best choice. The ideal turbo for the F22 is a t3/t4 hybrid (not positive on the trim... search around for the best answers. MRX, another mod here, has probably posted volumes on it).

3" is what you want for turbo, definitely... make sure it's 3" all the way through, or you might as well run your smallest diameter.

I have a JDM H22, running a chipped P28. Even with a new catalytic converter, it will not pass emissions.



The p06 may run your car, but I wouldn't try it. Chances are, you've done some damage already. I'm no expert on such things, but a D15 fuel map can't possibly have enough in common with the F22's needs. You're probably running extremely rich in limp mode, and that can cause damage as well as running lean. An unmodified p06 should NEVER be attached to your car! Auto has nothing to do with it. My p28 is auto.

[NAiL05]

Sounds like you didnt even chip the p06 and threw it in the car...Bisi is a good source and you should try reading up on Hondafan81 NA buildups.

[deevergote]

Yeah, he said pretty clearly that the P06 was completely stock... hopefully he'll understand why that is such a bad idea before that motor is toast!

[10thcb7]

Ghea! felt my car sputter and run like crap so i went back to my stock....That ecu throws the code "0" which is just a the MIL stays on when i jump the obd connector.
I think i have a short or a bad ground between the ATCU and the ECU.
So i figured chagne the ecu but that did nothing.



what makes IAB a better choice?? i want to leave the wiring stock.

a4 is tube design?? better than the h22 ?

which b pipe is bigger lude or a4?

lude f22's came with IAB correct?

I'm just looking for a smooth,direct,and large air volume flow.

[deevergote]

F22A6 IAB is all you can use... and you do have to add wires. A PT6 will be needed as well. H22 parts will not fit an F22.

[HondaFan81]

Sounds like you didnt even chip the p06 and threw it in the car...Bisi is a good source and you should try reading up on Hondafan81 NA buildups.

That's what I was thinking...that's your problem if so.

[deevergote]

That's what I was thinking...that's your problem if so.

I do believe he said that he did use the unchipped ECU. I don't know why everyone seems to be "figuring that out".

The intent of this thread is to figure out if there is a combination of stock F series parts that can build the most potent motor possible. The OP's goal of 180whp or whatever is impossible with ANY stock parts availible, but I believe 125whp may be attainable with good stock parts (going with USDM, EDM, and JDM parts). That's just an outtamyass guess, but it doesn't seem unreasonable.