Moding My Engine - Capabilities

[koffin]

You have realized your math is flawed, which is a good first step.

Here is something that you should ask yourself with everything...

If that little $5 part is going to give me an extra 20HP, why didn't Honda do it?

Also, age and mileage of your engine is far less important than condition and maintenance. Properly maintained Honda engines have been known to run strong upwards of 1,000,000 miles (yes 1 MILLION) if properly cared for. The fun thing about Hondas is that even if you drive the living snot out of them, they will still last a good 3-500K if they are properly maintained.

The fact that your car is running poorly indicates that it wasn't as maintained as it could have been, but they are so overbuilt, that you would be fine unless you boosted it. Make sure you fix all the mechanical issues FIRST though, otherwise you won't get the maximum potential out of your mods.

Just saving up for the H22 is not a bad idea in the least. It is a quick easy way to bolt in 65-70HP. It is also kind of pricey to do it right.

Car manufacturers makes cars for the average Joe. This is usually someone who wants there car as quite as possible. In order to achieve "quietness" performance or effciency is sacrificed. That is why Honda didn't add an intake or free-er flowing exhaust.

owequitit is right. Get your engine healthy, and you'd be surprised how much preformance you regain. If not, mods will just magnify and accelerate your problems.

Good luck!

[MyCord]

Thanks for all the help guys, I know what I need to do now.

[owequitit]

Do you think that anything is to be had by cleaning your exhaust manifold? I have a wagon, so I already have the better header and intake manifold. Do you think it would be beneficial to take off my intake manifold and clean it, or could that be done effectively with it on the car?

What if you can't live without you camshaft for a week to send it in to delta? That sounds like a kick-ass mod. I'd love to do it. Did you guys advance it for more low and mid range torque/hp? Is it expensive to buy a new/used camshaft and send that one in if you have to drive your car during the time it takes them to do this? I definitely want more info and testimonials on this! I already have an AEM Intake & 2.25" exhaust from the cat back (no resonator -loud when cold, perfect when the engine is hot, and less restrictive IMO-). I'm looking for that next small thing to do for some more juice in the wag. I'm already confident at smoking (most) ricer civics. The "JDM" Focuses and Neons are expecially fun to surprise. The wagon's kind of the ultimate sleeper, and only approx. 300 lbs. heavier.

Golly Gee, I love my wagon.

If you can't afford to send your camshaft in because you need the car, they can sell you a core for like $40.00 or something, regrind that, and then send that to you. You won't have to take the car down until you change the cam.

As far as cleaning the IM, it can help marginally. A lot of people claim that cleaning the EGR will make it more responsive in the bottom end and improve smoothness/drivability.

[owequitit]

Car manufacturers makes cars for the average Joe. This is usually someone who wants there car as quite as possible. In order to achieve "quietness" performance or effciency is sacrificed. That is why Honda didn't add an intake or free-er flowing exhaust.

owequitit is right. Get your engine healthy, and you'd be surprised how much preformance you regain. If not, mods will just magnify and accelerate your problems.

Good luck!

To some extent that is true. They do have to make the car smooth and quiet, but think about it....

If a little $5 resistor would give an extra 20HP and would have no effect on noise or smoothness (it doesn't effect anything that has anything to do with either of those) why didn't Honda do it?

If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

[koffin]

To some extent that is true. They do have to make the car smooth and quiet, but think about it....

If a little $5 resistor would give an extra 20HP and would have no effect on noise or smoothness (it doesn't effect anything that has anything to do with either of those) why didn't Honda do it?

If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

I missed that part about a resistor. Yeah, that is crap.

[koffin]

If you can't afford to send your camshaft in because you need the car, they can sell you a core for like $40.00 or something, regrind that, and then send that to you. You won't have to take the car down until you change the cam.

As far as cleaning the IM, it can help marginally. A lot of people claim that cleaning the EGR will make it more responsive in the bottom end and improve smoothness/drivability.

I disagree on the marginally. If you have seen a really gummed up intake you would question how it ran at all. It may not give you an HP number but your car will be more effiecient and run better. You'll probably only do it once in the lifetime ownership/car/engine.

[HondaFan81]

Wow, thank you owequitit, you're amazing.

You need to do more research.

Check out my two project threads on NA F22 builds in the performance tech - allmotor sub-forum to get ideas. I will have a dyno on the red Accord withing the coming month for actual #'s you can go by, but I have more than one modification.

[owequitit]

Wow, thank you owequitit, you're amazing.

I don't think I would quite say that...it is all stuff anybody could know.

Nothing that a little reading and learning can't accomplish.

HondaFan is right, there is a ton of stuff that can be found on here, either in his threads or in the tech/DIY sections.

[owequitit]

I disagree on the marginally. If you have seen a really gummed up intake you would question how it ran at all. It may not give you an HP number but your car will be more effiecient and run better. You'll probably only do it once in the lifetime ownership/car/engine.

Well it would depend on the manifold. I have pulled F22's apart with over 200K on them, and other than a bit of residue in certain areas, they were were perfectly clean.

The EGR may be a general exception, but you aren't going to see huge increases in anything by cleaning it. The most noticable changes will be increased smoothness and drivability.

[gloryaccordy]

The economical answer to all this is completely forgo any mods to your current engine and save it ALL for an H22. You won't be able to use most of the parts from your existing engine on your swap. You'll have to buy it all over again. Wouldn't you rather buy once?

Get your engine running right and then drive it like a rental. This will keep you occupied while the money you save for an H22 sits in an short term investment of your choice and grows itself.

This is baloney. You just have to know what mods to get. A Delta cam, H22/H23 IM, short ram intake, header and exhaust will not cost more than $1200 and you will definitely get significant gains, especially on an F22A1. The H22 just costs too much IMO to run properly and for the gains you get. I say stick with the F and take it to the limit, and if you're not happy part it out and get the H.

[koffin]

This is baloney. You just have to know what mods to get. A Delta cam, H22/H23 IM, short ram intake, header and exhaust will not cost more than $1200 and you will definitely get significant gains, especially on an F22A1. The H22 just costs too much IMO to run properly and for the gains you get. I say stick with the F and take it to the limit, and if you're not happy part it out and get the H.

Since I posted this, I have actually done some extensive searching. I didn't give much thought to a H22 swap for myself, but more of another swap now. H23 plenum and throttle body! I am excited to see there is a small movement towards sticking with and building up up an F. I have an F22a6 and will be putting in a delta cam with the aforementioned plenum/throttle body. I'll get a remap once complete.
I have a young(105k), strong engine. My $/HP-ft lbs will be better.

Good luck!

[koffin]

Well it would depend on the manifold. I have pulled F22's apart with over 200K on them, and other than a bit of residue in certain areas, they were were perfectly clean.

The EGR may be a general exception, but you aren't going to see huge increases in anything by cleaning it. The most noticable changes will be increased smoothness and drivability.

Honda seems to get things right. Although, to be fair. Alot of it has to do with the refiners. Bad refining = mechanical issues. A few years back, we had a problem with cars all over town needing injectors replaced. It eventually got traced back to the refinery level and the fact that they weren't.

You're right, EGRs are more likely to gum up and often. To me, smoothness and driveability just as important as anything. But then again, I'm old and slow.

[owequitit]

Honda seems to get things right. Although, to be fair. Alot of it has to do with the refiners. Bad refining = mechanical issues. A few years back, we had a problem with cars all over town needing injectors replaced. It eventually got traced back to the refinery level and the fact that they weren't.

You're right, EGRs are more likely to gum up and often. To me, smoothness and driveability just as important as anything. But then again, I'm old and slow.

Well, they burn clean which I am sure helps.

And yes, if there is a problem at the fuel level, then it can cause issues elsewhere.

I am not saying don't clean it up, but the only part really worth cleaning in most cases is the EGR system. It will generally improve drivability because the ECU is counting on the recirculation, and adjusts accordingly. On some high mileage or neglected engines, it is worthwhile to clean the rest of it too.

Your original post just sounded like they were going to get significant gains, which is untrue. I am all for doing it, just not expecting much. I hear you on drivability, but most kids don't.