Cb7 racing seats

[lbus9168]

wow this thread is getting real stupid real quick.

1. using a four point is straight up stupid. dont bother giving advice on harness's if you think its a sick idea to mount it like that. i dont care what schrothe say, theyre trying to sell you a product. a real harness uses a cage with correct mounting points. Its not legal to mount it like that in most race organisations (and i mean proper racing, not drag racing.)

2.if youre going to run a harness. use a fucking cage.

How hard is this?

listen to jayson, he gets it.

"senorguapo", if you use a harness on the street, your cancelling out the safety setup. its up to you what you do, but please, ffs, be aware of the risks.

[aventari]

wow this thread is getting real stupid real quick.

1. using a four point is straight up stupid. dont bother giving advice on harness's if you think its a sick idea to mount it like that. i dont care what schrothe say, theyre trying to sell you a product. a real harness uses a cage with correct mounting points. Its not legal to mount it like that in most race organisations (and i mean proper racing, not drag racing.)

2.if youre going to run a harness. use a fucking cage.

2. You're 100% correct, I should for sure have a roll cage/bar with a fixed back seat and a harness. I'm in the process of installing that. Then if you have a cage you need to wear a helmet when driving.

1. You don't have to care what Schroth say, but you should care what the DOT, TUV, FIA certification and empirical evidence from crash testing prove though, not some blanket forum wisdom.

I actually do "proper" racing and NASA rules say: ""Harnesses: The only 4 point harness systems we allow are those that carry an “FIA B-xxx.T/98" certification"



edit: I'm done here, there's nothing more to say.

[deevergote]

I'm a little curious if they received approval for ALL of their designs, or if they received approval for one design, and creatively worded their advertising to utilize that as a selling point. I'm not making any claims or accusations, as I have done no research on the matter... but I've seen a number of aftermarket companies do such things. Even some that were considered to be quite reputable (reputations often built on the very misleading advertising I'm referring to!)

Jayson (steelbluesleepR) is absolutely correct about the risks an improperly mounted shoulder harness will introduce. Having the harness bolted to the mounting points of the rear seat belts is actually quite dangerous, despite whatever the company may say. The mounting point is low, which will result in pressure an odd angle in a serious crash. It will also put the seat itself under strain that it likely was not intended to withstand. If the seat breaks or buckles due to that forward+downward pressure exerted by the harness, you could find yourself with a broken back. Finally, the rear seatbelt mounting points are intended for a lap belt. The leverage and angle of those harness straps are drastically different from what those mounting points were intended for.

DOT approval is important, and it does give a product some credibility... however, there have been quite a few instances where such approval has been given on things that were not particularly safe (the current Takata airbag debacle being a serious one right now.)

[steelbluesleepR]

No need to be a dick because someone disagrees with you. It doesn't make your argument stronger

I'm not trying to make my argument stronger, it's already as strong as it needs to be. I'm saying this as a moderator of this website: DO NOT GIVE ANY MORE ADVICE ON HARNESSES. Unsafe information on forums can and has injured/killed people.


Additionally, the link that YOU posted lists specific models for which this harness is approved for and the correct way to mount them in those specific chassis. The CB accord is on that list, ergo, your harness is not approved for the CB Accord. Also, the closest car to the CB on that list, the CA accord, says NOT to install the shoulder harnesses to the rear seat lap belts (location "D"). If you would have actually read the link that you cited, you would realize that you are 100% wrong.

belts by Jayson Carey, on Flickr

[steelbluesleepR]

It helps to know what you're talking about before refuting someone that actually DOES.

[aventari]

Which is exactly what I said in the first place.

Keep in mind, Schroth has a list of cars that this is approved for, and I don't know if the Accord is on that list, and I can't find it on the web. It came with the belts when I bought them and they were mostly German cars.

Jayson (steelbluesleepR) is absolutely correct about the risks an improperly mounted shoulder harness will introduce. Having the harness bolted to the mounting points of the rear seat belts is actually quite dangerous, despite whatever the company may say. The mounting point is low, which will result in pressure an odd angle in a serious crash. It will also put the seat itself under strain that it likely was not intended to withstand. If the seat breaks or buckles due to that forward+downward pressure exerted by the harness, you could find yourself with a broken back. Finally, the rear seatbelt mounting points are intended for a lap belt. The leverage and angle of those harness straps are drastically different from what those mounting points were intended for.

I'm totally in agreement with you all here. In Lemons and Chumpcar rules, the angle of the belt to the cage crossbar must be between 0-15 degrees. So if you are just mounting normal harnesses your advice is dead on. With the Schroth I've read that they use special webbing that stretches differently to more closely approximate a 3 point belt (that's why they are specified left or right mounting only) which is also why they can not use a crotch belt and avoid the submarining problem. The angle is presumably also why they are only approved for certain cars like my E30 and not a CB7.
For the rear mounting points having odd leverage, I too noticed that when installing the belts, and fabricated some steel brackets that change the angle of the force on the harness bracket from lifting the bolt and bending the harness mount, to single shear mounting that doesn't flex the harness mount.

I'm not saying everyone should go out an buy a 4 point, but IMHO in some cases that are a valid and safe solution. It's not a black and white issue either, motorsports are inherently dangerous, there's degrees of safety and In the end it's up to you what risk you're willing to take.

(the current Takata airbag debacle being a serious one right now.)

Heh, you would like the paint job on my race car:
http://imgur.com/JyAcozI

Takata R&D (Recalls & Defects)

[steelbluesleepR]

You didn't read anything I wrote, did you?

[deevergote]

Which is exactly what I said in the first place.










I'm totally in agreement with you all here. In Lemons and Chumpcar rules, the angle of the belt to the cage crossbar must be between 0-15 degrees. So if you are just mounting normal harnesses your advice is dead on. With the Schroth I've read that they use special webbing that stretches differently to more closely approximate a 3 point belt (that's why they are specified left or right mounting only) which is also why they can not use a crotch belt and avoid the submarining problem. The angle is presumably also why they are only approved for certain cars like my E30 and not a CB7.
For the rear mounting points having odd leverage, I too noticed that when installing the belts, and fabricated some steel brackets that change the angle of the force on the harness bracket from lifting the bolt and bending the harness mount, to single shear mounting that doesn't flex the harness mount.

I'm not saying everyone should go out an buy a 4 point, but IMHO in some cases that are a valid and safe solution. It's not a black and white issue either, motorsports are inherently dangerous, there's degrees of safety and In the end it's up to you what risk you're willing to take.



Heh, you would like the paint job on my race car:
http://imgur.com/JyAcozI

Takata R&D (Recalls & Defects)

My issue is mainly with the fact that I am assuming the OP is looking to do this to a daily driven street car, not a car used in motorsports. Yes, motorsports are inherently dangerous, and certain things are much better in terms of safety when on a track. Those things are not necessarily better on a street car. In fact, many racing safety devices would be downright deadly on a street car!
And with cars like the CB7, it's likely that people will actually be going faster on the street than they could possibly go on a racetrack. They'll be risking head-on collisions (not too common on a track, since everyone is going the same way.)
The stock belts are designed for street use. On cars equipped with airbags, the belts are designed to be used in conjunction with the bags. They may not be the best, compared to modern parts... but they are definitely better in a street car than a harness bolted to seatbelt mounting points.

[owequitit]

SteelbluesleepR is absolutely correct.

An improperly installed harness that wasn't designed to work with the rest of the car is dangerous on the street.

That comes from a safety background that includes crash investigation and accident survivability.