Bisimoto F22 Lvl2 Cam Regrind Out of Spec!

[owequitit]

I remember Bisi pretty much bashing Delta when he first came on the scene. I've heard of no issues from anyone with a Delta regrind... but I also don't know how many people here who have gotten Delta camshafts that knew enough to measure the camshafts to ensure they were in spec.

I have owned (but never installed) Delta 272 camshafts for both an F22A and an H22A. For the price and reputation, Delta is the way I would go.

Even Gude might not be a terrible option (though I have heard of one snapping... wasn't that you, Eric?) Awful customer service, but for the most part, their products seem decent.



I have a suspicion that you may be right. Honestly, CB7Denmark got a 100% stock cam, from what he claims (and I don't doubt that claim), so I wonder if Bisi was even sending cams out to be reground.


Bisi seems to be aiming for the Porsche crowd now. It's funny... I'm actually looking into purchasing a 996 in the next few years. We may cross paths again on Porsche forums (and I have NO problem sharing the experiences of CB7tuner members with the Porsche guys!)

I have thought about a 996 as a cheap alternative to what I REALLY want, which is a 997 GT3 with a 6MT. I don't know if they will ever come down in price, but I really, really want one some day. That engine is F'ing glorious. It just has that nice Germanic intake howl. And it revs to the moon, and I love Porsches.

[oni_cb7]

I have thought about a 996 as a cheap alternative to what I REALLY want, which is a 997 GT3 with a 6MT. I don't know if they will ever come down in price, but I really, really want one some day. That engine is F'ing glorious. It just has that nice Germanic intake howl. And it revs to the moon, and I love Porsches.

Great cars!

I can almost guarantee that Porsche prices will come down. There is a big bubble in that market right now. This bubble started with Magnus Walker, Rod Emory, Sharkwerks, Singer and RWB. These people have driven the desire of any Porsches through the roof. The "value" of these cars keeps going up. This bubble will eventually burst and there will be a ton of affordable ones up for sale. However, the GT3 will always pull a premium, it is a GT3.

I am a huge Porsche fanatic and an accountant.

[deevergote]

The 996 is crazy cheap compared to pretty much any other 911. It's the "unloved 911"... but it's still a perfectly good car! I have a feeling they'll go up in value sooner or later... though it's entirely possible that the Porsche brand itself will become more affordable in time. Especially with VW quickly diluting the brand with volume sellers like the Cayenne, Macan, and Panamera (though I do love the Panamera... I see it as a proper successor to the 928, so it's not quite the abomination that the SUVs are.)
996s can be found for $12,000-$15,000 with just over 100,000 miles right now. Granted, that mileage is pretty high for a performance car (and there's no guarantee that the seller isn't unloading a car that needs $8000 in repairs NOW...) Still, I looked into basic replacement parts (clutches, brakes, etc...) and they're not obscenely expensive. I read a bit on Porsche forums, and apparently they're not a total PITA to work on, either.
If I get one, it'll be a base model. No turbo, no AWD.
I just hope they don't jump up in value before I can comfortably afford one (and justify buying it!)

[owequitit]

Great cars!

I can almost guarantee that Porsche prices will come down. There is a big bubble in that market right now. This bubble started with Magnus Walker, Rod Emory, Sharkwerks, Singer and RWB. These people have driven the desire of any Porsches through the roof. The "value" of these cars keeps going up. This bubble will eventually burst and there will be a ton of affordable ones up for sale. However, the GT3 will always pull a premium, it is a GT3.

I am a huge Porsche fanatic and an accountant.

Yeah, I have been watching that same bubble. Don't get me wrong, Singer's are bad ass, but I am not so sure about the prices that the air-cooled Porsche's are commanding in mediocre condition. Especially given how many were made and their relative place in the market.

I hope they will come down eventually, although I suspect the GT3s will stay really high, and the 997 will probably stay high at least until they release the next gen, which brings the 6MT back. I also suspect that ones like the GT3 4.0RS will stay high permanently, although they will probably also depreciate before they appreciate.

You can actually see the bubble, because if you look at other Porsches (Boxster, Cayman, 928,944, etc) they don't command anywhere near the prices. Yes, the 911 will always be higher, but not 2-3x.

I was looking at Boxsters the other day and couldn't believe how cheap they were in comparison. Even good condition Boxster S's can be had for less than $20K.

[dj_ender]

I just got off the phone with Web and they do indeed grind Bisi's cams. I told the person on the phone about what was going on with these cams and they seemed a bit upset. I called them to ask about a hardweld because I don't want to chance getting an out of spec cam. I was told the cam I would get will be very close to the profile of Bisi's cam.

[deevergote]

I've been looking at Boxsters a bit as well. They still command a fairly high price. There are a few sub $10,000 Boxsters, but those are almost always the oldest, lowest trim, highest mileage examples. Decent older examples (non S) are available for $12,000+. $10,000 if you're lucky. A 15 year old Boxster with 80,000 miles will often fetch about the same price as a 15 year old 911 with 120,000 miles.

I never used to like the old air-cooled bugeye 911s. They always seemed dated and douchey to me. However, something has changed in me over the last few years, and I find myself REALLY liking them! After reading a magazine article about Singer, I really appreciate all the work they put into an old 911. You pay out the nose for one... but what you get is actually considerably better than brand new. The workmanship and attention to detail is absolutely astounding. Side note, the founder of Singer was in Catherine Wheel (90s band that I vaguely remember from late-night rock video shows on MTV), and is also the cousin of Bruce Dickinson (singer of Iron Maiden.)

The 997 will probably continue to depreciate over the next 3-4 years, but I can definitely see them starting to go up in value after that point. They're probably the simplest of all the modern water-cooled Porsches. They were hated by purists due to the fact that they were water-cooled, and that keeps their value low... because snobs buy Porsches, and Porsche snobs don't like that car as a matter of principle (yet every 911 to follow is acceptable!) Their low price will make them attractive, and eventually the snobbery will subside. I have a feeling people will soon be attracted to their relative simplicity. An attraction that will only be amplified by the absurdly high costs of buying and/or restoring an air-cooled 911.

Hell, even the 914 is hard to find for a good price anymore. Those things used to be a dime a dozen... cheaper than non-turbo 914s (which are, IMO, the best Porsche bargain on the market.) Porsche purists regarded the 914 as a VW (which it pretty much was...), and nobody ever really gave it any serious consideration. Now... $20,000+ for one that doesn't have major holes in it!

[deevergote]

I just got off the phone with Web and they do indeed grind Bisi's cams. I told the person on the phone about what was going on with these cams and they seemed a bit upset. I called them to ask about a hardweld because I don't want to chance getting an out of spec cam. I was told the cam I would get will be very close to the profile of Bisi's cam.

Good. I'm glad they were upset. Since it's been known that Web makes Bisi's cams, anyone that gets crap from Bisi is also getting crap from Web... or at least assuming so. If Bisi is sending out unmodified cams, or cams modified elsewhere, Web's reputation is still tied to them.

CB7Denmark, didn't you attempt to contact Web directly at some point?

[owequitit]

I've been looking at Boxsters a bit as well. They still command a fairly high price. There are a few sub $10,000 Boxsters, but those are almost always the oldest, lowest trim, highest mileage examples. Decent older examples (non S) are available for $12,000+. $10,000 if you're lucky. A 15 year old Boxster with 80,000 miles will often fetch about the same price as a 15 year old 911 with 120,000 miles.

I never used to like the old air-cooled bugeye 911s. They always seemed dated and douchey to me. However, something has changed in me over the last few years, and I find myself REALLY liking them! After reading a magazine article about Singer, I really appreciate all the work they put into an old 911. You pay out the nose for one... but what you get is actually considerably better than brand new. The workmanship and attention to detail is absolutely astounding. Side note, the founder of Singer was in Catherine Wheel (90s band that I vaguely remember from late-night rock video shows on MTV), and is also the cousin of Bruce Dickinson (singer of Iron Maiden.)

The 997 will probably continue to depreciate over the next 3-4 years, but I can definitely see them starting to go up in value after that point. They're probably the simplest of all the modern water-cooled Porsches. They were hated by purists due to the fact that they were water-cooled, and that keeps their value low... because snobs buy Porsches, and Porsche snobs don't like that car as a matter of principle (yet every 911 to follow is acceptable!) Their low price will make them attractive, and eventually the snobbery will subside. I have a feeling people will soon be attracted to their relative simplicity. An attraction that will only be amplified by the absurdly high costs of buying and/or restoring an air-cooled 911.

Hell, even the 914 is hard to find for a good price anymore. Those things used to be a dime a dozen... cheaper than non-turbo 914s (which are, IMO, the best Porsche bargain on the market.) Porsche purists regarded the 914 as a VW (which it pretty much was...), and nobody ever really gave it any serious consideration. Now... $20,000+ for one that doesn't have major holes in it!

I always liked them. But I also always like Air Cooled VW's, so I might not be the most neutral source. They were simple, durable and capable.

They weren't the most technologically advanced cars for a long time (Porsche eventually started figuring out they needed to update it to keep it relevant (and thus the 964 that Singer uses as a base was born).

The douchery surrounding the 993 will eventually wear off, although there is a little bit of reason to them not being as popular. They were the first of the air-cooled's, but a lot of people claim they lost of a lot of their engine character, which I think Porsche worked hard on getting back with the 997. The GT3 was probably a big step toward rectifying that (993 GT3), but it was still seen as "sterile" compared to previous models.

Interestingly, watch Chris Harris's review of the Singer 911 to really hear that sucker howl (oddly, it has a water-cooled 911 crankshaft in it).

[owequitit]

Good. I'm glad they were upset. Since it's been known that Web makes Bisi's cams, anyone that gets crap from Bisi is also getting crap from Web... or at least assuming so. If Bisi is sending out unmodified cams, or cams modified elsewhere, Web's reputation is still tied to them.

CB7Denmark, didn't you attempt to contact Web directly at some point?

Hopefully, Webb will start to fix some of the mistakes since Bisi seems to have no interest in it.