Headers for N/A

[dwhacks]

First off, yes I've searched, and yes I've read a lot of threads on the subject, but they are all quite dated.

If you've been following my threads, I got a 92 cb7 from my bro, I've cleaned up the head, lapped the valve seat, delta 272 cam, got an intake manifold from an H23 and matched it to a 68mm Phearable throttle body. All this is working well now but as we were changing the oil I noticed a hole in the flex pipe. My brother got this eBay header 3-4 years ago and its seen better days to say the least.

So what are my options these days for my f22a? I can't find much that doesn't look the same as the 70$ eBay headers. I understand some will be higher quality but I would prefer something different, more suited to top end. I am looking for a long tube 4-2-1 or 4-1 that isn't 1000+$. Am I outa luck? The only "different" header I can find is the Bisi, and its out of my budget at 1000+$. I have read the threads about paying someone for "their" design instead of just another "copy" and I agree with this idea for the most part, but I am not going to shell out 400+$ for a "higher" quality copy, I will get the 70$ one that lasts 4 years. Unless of course Its a copy of something different then the standard 4-2-1.

So any help would be quite nice.

[Chrisnick]

Without re-inventing the wheel....

Yay, measurements time!

New "longer tube" JVT header I got from Tim.
Head flange ports
Horizontal: 1.75"
Vertical opening: 1.32"

Primaries:
Roughly 17.5" long
1.66" OD tubes
Collector is only 1.66" too! 0_o

Secondaries
About 19" long(measured from flange to collector merge point)
1.86" OD tubes
1.7" ID at the upper to lower flange
Collector is 2.02" OD, 1.88" ID

Old no-name ebay header
Head flange ports:
1.75" width
1.25" height

Primaries:
13" primary length
1.66" OD

Secondaries:
1.86" OD
22" runner length(measured from flange to collector merge point)

Collector:
2" ID



So the new JVT header has:
-Roughly the same size ports at the head flange
-4.5"(or so) longer primaries
-Same size OD primaries
-3"(or so) shorter secondaries
-Same size OD secondaries
-Collector is the roughly the same size

That means that the new JVT header SHOULD produce more torque/power at a lower RPM because of the longer primaries. The shorter secondaries SHOULD balance the top end back out. IMO, for a stock camshaft, the primary length is still too short(I'd like to see it in the 23-24" range) but the diameter is about right, if maybe a hair small. I'm guessing about 1.5" ID, which does help keep velocity high. The secondary diameter is small. Way small. 2" ID is what I'd think would be ideal, with about 12-13" in length. Collector is of course very small, too. This JVT collector has a "stamped" style, versus the tapered/cut tube style of the old header. The JVT header probably has some turbulence in this area, which doesn't help. 2.25"-2.5" ID is where the collector should be(if not using a true merge collector with reverse cone). This header is definitely an improvement, but I'm probably going to get a 2" ID U bend from Summit Racing and re-do the secondaries into an improved tapered/cut tube style 2.25" collector.

So all and all, ideal header:

Head flange ports are OK. Primary length in the 23-24" range, 1.5-1.625" ID. Secondaries in the 12-13" range, 2" ID probably best. Collector should be a tapered/cut tube style collector, 2.25-2.5" ID(if not using a true merge collector with reverse cone).

TLDR: Get a header with the longest primary tubes for the cheapest you can find that bolts onto the F22A. The primary tubes are pretty much the size you want in terms of diameter. The secondaries and collector are what are, what I believe, undersized. Cut the secondaries off at the flange, weld on 2" sections with a decent 2.5" collector(Vibrant units are $80, decent design, probably worth it) and be done with it. Probably the most bang for the buck.
That's probably what was done with this http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...&postcount=805

Want to get a bit fancier?
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=3138765
See post 569 and 572. Don't think it was ever tested, though. Basically, take any PLM long-tube H22 header and weld on an F22A flange.

[Rilas]

I've gone down the route of modifying the PLM header, and while I can say I love the header it wasn't cheap.

$450 for the PLM header
$100+ for the flanges and a resonator
$50-100 for a F22A header flange, I got mine from Weirtech but the site isn't up anymore.
$20-60 for gastkets
$200+ for the exhaust shops labor to put a F22A flange on it and not warp the flange (mine took over 6 hours of labor)

Basically if you want a good header for these motors you have to be willing to spend some money or just stick with the eBay headers.

[dwhacks]

Well Thats a bit of a bummer! I was hoping there would be mid ground somewhere.

So, if I am stuck with the standard 4-2-1 design on my budget, then is there a brand name one with proper wall thickness and material? I've seen OBX makes one, and a few other companies.

[deevergote]

Until Bisimoto came around, there really were no off the shelf performance headers on the market for the F22A. The best you could get were the generic designs by DC Sports, Neuspeed, etc... and then all of the knockoff copies of those, like OBX, Megan Racing, and the $50 junk you find on eBay. The only real difference between the better stuff and the cheap stuff was the material and build quality.

I would suggest picking up a DC Sports header, since they seem to be among the better-made pieces out there. Then you can add a larger collector (2.25" or 2.5" is what I would do, depending on exhaust diameter... sounds like you have enough done to justify 2.5")
You can get quality collectors from Burns Stainless, though you could probably look around and find cheaper prices (for what may be inferior products... but that remains to be seen.) The Burns stuff isn't cheap, but they're the go-to company for many serious tuners.
The "collector mod" won't give you massive gains, but it'll likely help a great deal over the old generic design.
I only say DC Sports specifically because they're well-made. While you could save a few bucks by getting a cheap eBay header, you'll be putting a decent amount of money into modifying the collector (especially if you have to pay someone to weld it on.) No use having something that will develop a crack in the primaries shortly after you've put so much work into it!

[Rilas]

I would either stick with eBay no name brand or go with a DC or Megan header, although DC is the only one that is CARB certified.

[Rilas]

One more bonus for the DC header is that is uses the crush o-ring gaskets like OEM so you have much less chance for the header to leak between the header and down pipe.

[CB7NWDD]

So I've read in many places that you can use the 4G63 turbo exhaust manifold, you may have to grind the block, get rid of A/C, etc. I've been meaning to order one for some time to throw on the block in my garage...

SOME 4G63's came n/a, admittedly they likely have very little aftermarket following, but I imagine the popularity of the cars they went into may have helped.

Has anybody ever thought to order the "performance" n/a exhaust manifold from eBay to get measurements. I'm not certain that the exhaust flange is the same as the turbo, or that it will fit from redrilling, but that knowledge can be gained at a junk yard with an F22a exhaust gasket and a broke down eclipse.

Looking at eBay, I see an n/a header set up for less than 80 bucks, and according to the distributor the inlet and outlet are both .25 inch larger than the standard ebay header for our car.

[deevergote]

Amazingly, that never occurred to me! Some of the DSMs used Chrysler engines, I believe. Those may not have compatible manifolds. However, the 4G63A was available in non-turbo GS models. I imagine that would be a good option. As long as the aftermarket is better than what we have for our engines. Given that the turbo engines were the ones the performance market truly embraced, I'm wondering what sort of quality and performance you can expect from N/A performance options. Worth looking into, though. Maybe even make an account on a DSM forum and ask them, as they would certainly know better!

[GhostAccord]

I am currently working on fitting a GS flange to my F22A6 head. This is for a ustom 4-1 header i am designing for my build. I wasn't able to find an f22 flange so i opted for the DSM. A few of the bolt holes require some resizing and if you are going N/A as I am, the ports need some port work as well. I will post up info as I work on it. if anyone is interested in more info send me a pm.

As far as the flange fitting there should be no big issues. As far as primary tube length and header design. I'm not sure if the SD will fit.

[dwhacks]

Is there a reason why I can't find the DC Sports cb7 header listed on their site? Is the Prelude one compatible, and wouldn't "ceramic" coating be kind of useless if I am going to cut up half the header?

Since I need to modify the header anyway, maybe I should just modify the one I have? Change the down pipe and collector and get a new flex pipe. This cheaper header has held up for 4 years without problems.

[deevergote]

Maybe they finally stopped making them. The header for the H23A1 will fit, if that's still available (that's in the Prelude.)

If you're comfortable with putting the work and money into modifying your old cheap header, go for it. I suppose you could always cut the collector off and weld it to a new header if the old one breaks. If you can weld, or know someone that can, that will cut costs considerably.

[Rilas]

Here is the ceramic coated header on DC Sport's site:

http://www.dcsports.com/4-2-1header2/HHC5011_Honda.html

Also here is a decently priced one on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/DC-Sports-HHC5.../dp/B000KBC5TI

If you were willing to try the 4G63 header here is a decent looking one that isn't the super generic design:

http://topspeedauto.com/mitsubishi-e...steel-headers/

[wagon-r]

If you are going to weld in a different collector, the ceramic coating has to come off to get a good weld. And its not easy to remove.

[dwhacks]

If you are going to weld in a different collector, the ceramic coating has to come off to get a good weld. And its not easy to remove.

That was my guess, one of the main reasons I wasn't really sure about the DC Sports header.

Anyway, I have a vacuum leak/idle problem I need to get fixed first. Wish I could find the dang leak, hope its not the IM gasket....