h22a or b20 block gsr head.

[cb7TwitchBoy]

So i was talking to this guy at a car meet today about my future h22a swap and he suggested the b20 block with gsr head because the h22a is heavy and would have to do some adjustments on my coilovers. What do you guys think? And could tell me about this two engines?

[H311RA151N]

Wow...

Disregard anything that person has to say.

1, that engine is never thrown in Accords. Ever. Totally unpractical and no after market support what so ever as for the transplant.

2, the weight difference is very minimal. That's a ridiculous reason anyways.

3, There would be no need to adjust the coilovers in the first place. The H22A weighs damn near the same as the F22A in it right now. Even if it were dramatically heavier... I guess you would just have to adjust them. I don't see the point with this thought process what so ever.

4, It's called a B20 VTEC and it lacks the proper torque for a heavy Accord anyways.


Not knocking you here at all. There's nothing really all that wrong with having some idiot spew a ton of utter ridiculousness and wondering if it's true. Some idiots/liars/bullshitters are good at what they do.

The guy is so full of bullshit he's about to explode. I'd suggest you find new people to hang around with by the way. No longer hanging out with Civic and Integra guys might be a good start. Or go to Walmart and buy some tall black rubber boots because the bullshit is deep with most of those guys.

[Jarrett]

I agree with everything you said with the exception of the matter of adequate torque on part of the B20. It has plenty. There is a carbureted F18A available in some markets that is an absolute dog. It's still not practical from a mounting perspective and because of the transmission linkage required, but torque is not the issue.

[deevergote]

Exactly. That engine would move the car just fine. Not in such a way that it would justify the cost and effort of doing the swap... but even a B18C would move the car respectably. Hell, throw a turbo on a D16 and you could potentially be running circles around guys with built H22A swaps!

We don't use B or D series engines because they don't fit in our cars without considerable modification. A good deal of custom work would be necessary, and the cost would be outrageous in relation to any benefit.

Remember this:
Accords - H and F engines are your friends
Civics - D and B engines are your friends (in a Civic, that guy's words would have some truth to them.)

Also, as stated... don't listen to what that guy says in the future. If he knows anything about cars, he doesn't seem to know anything at all about THESE cars.

[ahdiofreak]

A H series would run great in a little civic tho. And they also make stuff to swap an H or F into a civic. But knowing that your big accord would beat a small civic is an even better feeling.

[deevergote]

Yes, but as the guy at the car meet said, an H or F in a Civic would require some suspension modification for it to handle well. The extra front end weight in an already front-heavy Civic would be an issue. Fast in a straight line, but it's possible that a well-driven D15 powered Civic could beat one powered by an H22A on an autox course, or on a road course with tight turns.

[tommi]

stop listening to people at meets that think they know whats best for your car.

[cb7TwitchBoy]

Wow...

Disregard anything that person has to say.

1, that engine is never thrown in Accords. Ever. Totally unpractical and no after market support what so ever as for the transplant.

2, the weight difference is very minimal. That's a ridiculous reason anyways.

3, There would be no need to adjust the coilovers in the first place. The H22A weighs damn near the same as the F22A in it right now. Even if it were dramatically heavier... I guess you would just have to adjust them. I don't see the point with this thought process what so ever.

4, It's called a B20 VTEC and it lacks the proper torque for a heavy Accord anyways.


Not knocking you here at all. There's nothing really all that wrong with having some idiot spew a ton of utter ridiculousness and wondering if it's true. Some idiots/liars/bullshitters are good at what they do.

The guy is so full of bullshit he's about to explode. I'd suggest you find new people to hang around with by the way. No longer hanging out with Civic and Integra guys might be a good start. Or go to Walmart and buy some tall black rubber boots because the bullshit is deep with most of those guys.

Yea i staid quiet when he said that, i didnt know what to say i just told him that our cars are not even heavy and that the h22a pulls even more then a b18 and for the price is ridiculous. I didn't know him we just started talking about what car did i have and thats what he told me but i mean he had a civic and s2k so that says something about him ha.

[deevergote]

Back in the day, you had to know something about your car to modify it. You had to know what parts to look for. You had to know how things came apart. That meant lots of time talking to guys that have lots of experience. That meant buying and reading manuals. That meant a LOT of trying things out on your own to see what worked.

These days, it's different. You go on a forum such as this one, or worse, Facebook. You spend 10 minutes reading, a few more minutes on Google searching for different options (accord engine swap, accord turbo kit, etc...) and you're given an overload of information. Once you have an idea, you go on eBay and buy whatever parts you need for next to nothing. Swaps for a few hundred bucks. Turbo kits for little more. Intake, header, and exhaust packages can be had for under $200 shipped!
In other words, nobody today needs to know a damn thing to modify their car. They just have to buy whatever the internet tells them to buy, and bolt it on.
With a $500 CB7, a $500 ebay turbo kit, a $500 set of trendy xxr wheels, $30 springs, $100 exhaust system, $35 HIDs, and a $300 paintjob from Maaco or the like... you'll have a car that people will go apeshit over. Seriously. I just "spent" less than $2000 total on a car that the average idiot could easily build for pocket change. And that is what is praised these days. It wouldn't be well done, but nobody really cares about that anymore anyway!

So yeah, I got rather wordy... but my point is that most people don't know the how and the why... they just hear something and do it. Knowledge and comprehension are no longer requirements to have a modified vehicle, even if you turn your own wrench. It's rather sad.

[rxaysanasy]

b20a was in 3rd gen accords though.. haha ive always wanted a 3rd gen but i think it was the japan and europe models though :/

[Chrisnick]

Back in the day, you had to know something about your car to modify it. You had to know what parts to look for. You had to know how things came apart. That meant lots of time talking to guys that have lots of experience. That meant buying and reading manuals. That meant a LOT of trying things out on your own to see what worked.

These days, it's different. You go on a forum such as this one, or worse, Facebook. You spend 10 minutes reading, a few more minutes on Google searching for different options (accord engine swap, accord turbo kit, etc...) and you're given an overload of information. Once you have an idea, you go on eBay and buy whatever parts you need for next to nothing. Swaps for a few hundred bucks. Turbo kits for little more. Intake, header, and exhaust packages can be had for under $200 shipped!
In other words, nobody today needs to know a damn thing to modify their car. They just have to buy whatever the internet tells them to buy, and bolt it on.
With a $500 CB7, a $500 ebay turbo kit, a $500 set of trendy xxr wheels, $30 springs, $100 exhaust system, $35 HIDs, and a $300 paintjob from Maaco or the like... you'll have a car that people will go apeshit over. Seriously. I just "spent" less than $2000 total on a car that the average idiot could easily build for pocket change. And that is what is praised these days. It wouldn't be well done, but nobody really cares about that anymore anyway!

So yeah, I got rather wordy... but my point is that most people don't know the how and the why... they just hear something and do it. Knowledge and comprehension are no longer requirements to have a modified vehicle, even if you turn your own wrench. It's rather sad.

Very well said.

[deevergote]

b20a was in 3rd gen accords though.. haha ive always wanted a 3rd gen but i think it was the japan and europe models though :/

VERY different B20, though. It's as much a B series as the F20C is an F series.
That B20 is closer to the A20 found in other 3rd gen Accords.

[af_1132]

And that is what is praised these days. It wouldn't be well done, but nobody really cares about that anymore anyway!

We care, Deev, don't forget about the O so few of us!

I'm glad this guy found this place though.

[H311RA151N]

b20a was in 3rd gen accords though.. haha ive always wanted a 3rd gen but i think it was the japan and europe models though :/

The A20A was used in the 3rd gen Accords. Not the B20A. The B20A was used in the 3rd generation Prelude. The B20B is what people use for B20 VTEC swaps and it's mainly found in the CRV. The B20A is what ass holes try to sell unknowing people on Craigslist for their B20 VTEC build which is useless.

I agree with everything you said with the exception of the matter of adequate torque on part of the B20. It has plenty. There is a carbureted F18A available in some markets that is an absolute dog. It's still not practical from a mounting perspective and because of the transmission linkage required, but torque is not the issue.

Exactly. That engine would move the car just fine. Not in such a way that it would justify the cost and effort of doing the swap... but even a B18C would move the car respectably. Hell, throw a turbo on a D16 and you could potentially be running circles around guys with built H22A swaps!

We don't use B or D series engines because they don't fit in our cars without considerable modification. A good deal of custom work would be necessary, and the cost would be outrageous in relation to any benefit.

Remember this:
Accords - H and F engines are your friends
Civics - D and B engines are your friends (in a Civic, that guy's words would have some truth to them.)

Also, as stated... don't listen to what that guy says in the future. If he knows anything about cars, he doesn't seem to know anything at all about THESE cars.

The smaller displacement Ds and Bs do not have the torque Hs and Fs have and they don't gain the torque as easily with modification either.

Is it sufficient? Of course. It doesn't really matter, but it is a fact still yet.

The B20 VTEC is an avenue most Civic & Integra guys use to get torque. But still, it doesn't build torque as well with modification. Not like the F/H's do in comparison.

Heavier car with less torque does have a negative effect on performance. But torque is not the issue. An issue, but not the issue. Or reason why it's not used in CB's.

If one ever drives a rotary RX7, even one that's turbocharged, you will know what it's like to feel as if the car is missing some torque. I imagine that's how a B20 VTEC would feel in an Accord. But maybe I'm over exaggerating it.

[deevergote]

There was a B20A in the 3rd gen Accord as well. Similar internally to the Prelude engine, but mounted differently. It's highly sought after among the 3geez crowd, and very hard to come by these days. 160hp from a 2.0L in 1986 was pretty damn impressive!

Honestly, a 2.0L engine would work just fine in our cars. The 150hp F20A was stock in the sportiest CB7 of all. The F20B is a current favorite for swaps. The Acura RSX weighed about 100lbs less than the CB7, and performed quite well with a K20 under the hood. The Inspire/Ra***a got a G20A under the hood... albeit a 5 cylinder.

Is more torque preferable? Possibly. Probably. Though in a fairly lightweight FWD car, more torque often means more wheelspin... so it depends on your needs. Regardless, the torque offered even by our "big" 2.2L engines is pretty minimal.
If we wanted to slap a turbo on ANY Honda engine, even a little 89hp 1.2L L12B from a European Jazz, and it would be plenty to move our cars around. Would it be the best approach in terms of cost/performance? Not at all... but will it get you from point A to point B, maybe even with a little fun? Certainly.

Still, with the ease of the H22A swap, and the availability of the F22A (to build for boost), I truly don't see the point of swapping in anything else.