h22a swap or turbocharged f22a

[Jonnyflybynight]

I own a 92 EX coup with the f22a6 engine and I have two issues regarding my decision, cost and reliability. I was going over the list of parts I would need to swap my f22a6 for an h22 and it was a bit intimidating. It almost looked as if turbocharging the engine I already have would be cheaper, but I also fear loosing Honda's reliably which is one of the reasons I love honda's so much. I would greatly appreciate any input regarding cost and reliability. It's my daily driver. I've heard that turbocharging an f22 is better than an h22 because the f22 has lower compression. Also I've heard that the f22a6 is the best of the f22 series of engines.

[deevergote]

Yes, the F22A6 is the best among USDM F22A engines (there are some in Europe that make 150hp, rather than 140hp.)

Lower compression makes for easier tuning, sure... but the F22A's stock internals are not made to handle boost. Unless you swap in forged internals, you WILL break a ring land. You could get lucky and have it last for a year. You could get unlucky and have it last a week. Your engine's current condition, your driving style, your choice of turbo parts, and the quality of your ECU tune all play a role in the reliability of a turbocharged stock-block F22A... but ultimately, those pistons will give out, and you'll be left with a broken engine.

Swapping in an H22A will give you a reliable 200hp (about 165 to the wheels). I have one in my car, and it's nice. In stock form, the H22A really wakes the CB7 up with little compromise. It feels like stock. By today's standards, a CB7 with a stock H22A will pretty much be on par with modern family sedans... so it's nothing terribly impressive... but that doesn't mean it's not fun to drive!
The H22A offers plenty of aftermarket upgrade options as well. You could get somewhere near 250whp N/A and still be able to daily-drive the car. 250whp would put you in the low-13, high-12 second quarter mile range, which is where many sports cars are today.
The H22A swap is fairly straightforward, and there are lots of people on here that can help you figure it out.

Now, back to boosting the F22A... forged pistons will allow you to make around 400whp reliably, assuming all is done correctly. Beyond that, the stock sleeves become a potential weakness. Resleeving is expensive, but if you do that... well... the sky is the limit!
Honestly, though... 400whp is about all I'd ever want on a lightweight FWD car. Beyond that, traction becomes an issue, and it'll be difficult to actually use any more power on public roads.


Boosting an F22A the right way will ALWAYS be more expensive than an H22A swap, but it will offer greater power potential. Figure out what your final goals are, and go with the option that is best suited to meeting them.

[Jarrett]

I'm convinced that you have that response saved in a Word document on your pc somewhere given the amount of times you seem to answer it.

[Stoner51]

I'm convinced that you have that response saved in a Word document on your pc somewhere given the amount of times you seem to answer it.

I agree with You.

I bet I have read that at least 5 times

steve

[illinois_erik]

A sticky should be made with that and the other combinations
f22 boosted vs h22a swap
h22a boosted vs built f22
etc.

[spiderpig]

f22 boosted ftw imo

[wildBill83]

Buy another CB7 and do both... Expect to invest 2x your initial estimate on either project. Honestly it's something you have to do right either way and both will be expensive.

If you plan to do the work yourself and already own the tools you can go either route. If you are not familiar with custom builds and don't have many tools or piles of money laying around go with an H22A that has been refreshed by your favorite local engine shop.

Also as far as reliability goes, the more moving parts the less reliable something is, the further from factory condition something is the less reliable it is. So in that sense just drop the H22A in and don't do the turbo build unless you can afford to drop $$ and have your car down for a few months. You do know that a tuner works on his schedule so getting your dd tuned and ready to drive after a weekend turbo install fest is not a likely story especially if you can successfully rebuild a motor and install a turbo and all the accessories in that short a period of time.

[wagon-r]

I have heard that if you are willing to limit boost to about 5 psi, then the F22 will last and will not blow up. Is this incorrect?

As for H22 swaps. I did one about 10 years ago. The importer claimed the engine only had 30k miles on it, but it came with a worn-out clutch and 15% leakage in the cylinders. The importer refused to stand behind his claims of 30k. I made the mistake of installing the engine anyway. A year later it was toast.

Now, H22 engines can be 20 years old. I would hesitate to say that a H22 swap will be durable.

[illinois_erik]

Honda Tuning June/July 2002
Theres a prelude all stock internals A4, a thicker head gasket DD @ 12psi
Using FMAX's turbo kit and an additional two 440c fuel injectors attached to the intake piping controlled by ERL MF2 controller.. made for an interesting flashback read. I wonder how long it lasted. With $$ anything is possible.

[wildBill83]

Now, H22 engines can be 20 years old. I would hesitate to say that a H22 swap will be durable.

That's why we suggested a refreshed motor, a refreshed motor should run like a motor that has just been broken in and be just as reliable.

[deevergote]

I have heard that if you are willing to limit boost to about 5 psi, then the F22 will last and will not blow up. Is this incorrect?

:sigh:
Yes. That is incorrect. Halfassing shadetree "mechanics" like to claim that it will last, and it may for a time... but the final result is ALWAYS the same. 20+ year old cast aluminum internals that were never designed for boost simply will not last. Not even with low boost.
It is unfortunate that the myth has been perpetuated for so long that it is considered "fact".

Furthermore, "5psi" means nothing without knowing what turbo is being used. 5psi from a small turbo is different than 5psi from a large turbo. It's a much better idea to assume the intended turbo is a proper size for the engine (i know... assumptions are dangerous), and think of a target horsepower.
250hp from a properly sized turbo might last a good while. 250hp from a tiny turbo might be like a blowtorch.

[HCoupe]

Now, H22 engines can be 20 years old. I would hesitate to say that a H22 swap will be durable.

In my experience, if you buy from Hmotorsonline.com you will not have a problem with their old used engines or transmissions, they have always been cherry! Over the years, between my friends & me, we have bought over ten engines some with transmissions from Steve at HMO. Not one had a problem or failed because of the previous Japanese owner. Hell, I had a friend that bought a stock HMO OBD1 H22 with full bolt ons, custom header and had it dyno tuned at 217HP(We would always ask for an engine with the highest compression #'s). My brother and I swapped a HMO OBD0 DOHC ZC into my dad's Crx a couple years ago, still running strong to this day and gets 35-45mpg. The Engine I have currently have is five and half years old, I've put over 75k on it, and it's still running 14's currently. I'm not easy on my engines too, when that engine was in my EG, it would always break traction in first. I would have to bounce it off the rev limiter waiting for the tires to catch up. My friends always joked about how my engine saw more rev limiter life than normal driving, and they were always astonished that my engine stay together. So get a HMO H22A, I don't think you'll regret it....... BTW, you pay for what you get, don't cheap out, saving pennies now will only cost you dollars later.

[deevergote]

While I do wholeheartedly agree with trusting hmotorsonline (my H22A has been in my car and running since 2003), you really should do some restoration work on a used engine. Especially now, since those engines have likely been sitting on a shelf for a decade or more. Any OBD1 H22A (which would be my choice... and was my choice 11 years ago) is going to be 20+ years old. Even in good condition, it would be VERY wise to replace all seals and gaskets (aside from the head gasket, if you wish to trust that.) Anything rubber has certainly dried and worn, especially parts exposed to oil. All belts, obviously, should be replaced.

Still, an engine from there shouldn't require any major repairs. If you follow their installation guidelines to the letter, they are good about honoring their warranty as well. I honestly wouldn't shop anywhere else for a swap. Well worth their slightly higher prices.

[johnl]

Yes, the F22A6 is the best among USDM F22A engines (there are some in Europe that make 150hp, rather than 140hp.)

I don't know about Europe, but the engine in Australian delivered CB7s (like mine) is the F22A9, with 150hp (I am lead to believe that this is also the JDM engine). As far as I know the major difference is the compression ratio at 9.8/1, but there may be other differences.

The CR is probably a little high to supercharge (including turbo), but doable with careful tuning I would expect. Still, the pistons are likely to be the weak point, so as with the F22Aothers it would be a good idea to replace them anyway with lower CR forged items.

I suspect that a good tune is likely to cost nearly as much as the supercharging hardware...??

[turboHLS30]

You can run whatever amount of boost you want through a F22a. The real question is how do you drive? If you're the racing from green light to green light type, it might not last long. If you know when and when not to play around, then it will last. I had a LS/V Civic stock internals on 12psi. Ebay kit, .60/.63 turbo, ARP head studs, Type R head. Never dyno'd it, but it ran a 11.8 @116mph and was daily driven for 3 years before I decided to tear it down and do a rebuild. A good tune will make or break your build. If you let some joe blow tuner tune it, don't expect it to last long. Personally I'm a N/A guy, but in your situation, a turbo F22 will net you more power. And if you can drive it like a civilized person it will last. A turbo car doesn't normally see boost until 2.5k-3k, anywhere below that it's like a normal Honda engine, meaning Honda reliability.