F23a head gasket or f22a?

[zach09]

Hey guys just have a question here. What I am doing is I got a f23a jdm bottom end with 20 to 50 k on it. I am putting the f22a4 head on the f23a block. I just had the head rebuilt and I am ready to rock with all my new parts oil control orifice to put into the f23 block and everything else.

My only casern is I have read tons on the swap and I have read people doing both the f23a head gasket and also others saying they have used the f22a head gasket.

I decided to buy the whole felpro f22a head gasket set with everything I need. from what I have read both gaskets will work? I know the f23a has a bigger bore of 2mm but have read its not a issue with using the f22a gasket.

Just don't want to get the all together and in the car and have a problem.

Thanks guys!

[deevergote]

Head swaps are almost always a recipe for disaster. I hope you're not relying on this car to get to school or work.

Anyway, that being said...

I have no personal experience with headswaps (due to my previously mentioned opinion and observations.) However, were I to do such a thing, I would probably elect to use the F23 gasket over the F22 gasket. My reasoning would be that I wouldn't want the edges of the smaller F22A gasket being in the blast zone. I would only imagine that causing accelerated wear, leading to premature head gasket failure.

[zach09]

Thanks for the fast response! I value your insight on this you know what your talking about. My question to you or anyone what makes this swap unreliable? Basically what it seems to me is bored and stroked factory bottom end?

I don't know enough about all this to argue or say anyone is wrong just trying to learn here.

Makes me kinda upset if it is unreliable because I was told by many that I should be just fine. It's not my everyday driver but I do want it to last and take a few trips in it here and there.

Thanks!

[deevergote]

This particular setup isn't quite so bad, and as long as you do everything carefully you might be successful. Head swaps usually involve the plugging of oil passages (not sure in this case), mismatched bore/combustion chamber diameters (which is essentially the core of the head gasket concern here...), a custom timing belt, an engine without a proper ECU to run it, and a number of potential issues that stem solely from the fact an inexperienced enthusiast was the one to put everything together (not knocking you at all, but seeing as this is your first time assembling such an engine, there are bound to be mistakes made.)

Most headswap issues come from guys that do an H22A head on an F22A or F23A block. The biggest problems there are the lower compression ratio (not a reason for failure, but the result makes far less power than a full H22A)... and the need to rev far higher than the block was designed to in order to make power with that head.



Are you doing this swap because you got the block dirt cheap? Or are you doing the swap because you've read of the F22A head's incredible flow potential?
If it's the former, then that's as good a reason as any. If it's the latter, you're sorely mistaken... unless that F22A head has been modified. A stock F23A1 head will outflow a stock F22A head. You'd get better results with a complete F23A1 than you would with this headswap, I fear.
If your F22A is healthy, you'd probably be better off just working with that. The increased bore and stroke of the F23A are nice, but they're not really all that significant to make a huge difference.


Since you don't rely solely on the car, I say go for it. It's a toy. Prepare for the worst, though... and take care with each step. The people on the internet that say "it'll be fine!" usually just haven't blown up yet.

[zach09]

Great info thanks a lot! The reason I am doing the swap is because my car got stolen got it back and bottom end is knocking. I couldn't find a f22a bottom end or whole motor worth a shit. but I found this bottom end cheap and want to get the car going again. I have done many small block Chevy engines in my time but new to this import thing haha! If you think its best to use the f23a head gasket ill order one up right now as I work at a parts store

[deevergote]

It's worth a shot, especially since what you have now is no good.

As I said, I've never done it myself... so I can't say for certain that the F23 gasket is the correct choice. I could only give my reasons for choosing it if I were going that route. It makes sense to me, but it's based only on my own assumptions... not experience or firsthand knowledge. If you're not in a huge hurry, you might want to wait a bit to see if anyone else has more to say on the subject.

[zach09]

Ok great no problem! I ordered the gasket just incase as I plan on doing the swap in the next two days. I already pulled the old motor out and will start swapping parts over in the next day. So if anyone knows first hand what they would do or have done please fill me in.

Thanks again deevergote

[Mishakol129]

I plan on doing the same thing for similar reasons. My engine is burning oil a lot and it needs a new bottom end. Putting an F22b dohc head on the F23a block. A JDM low mileage block. I already have the F22b dohc head on the F22a block and its running very well. It feels just as good as the sohc head, same power and everything. Even running the same Pt6 ecu.

Anyways. This swap is not a bad idea and it can be very reliable. All you gotta do is follow the right steps and in order and you'll be fine. Head swaps aren't bad, its just you gotta choose the most compatible ones, some are better and more reliable than others.

Read up on this guys thread (In the last few pages I ask questions about it). He has reliably built the F23 hybrid and plans to do another one because the low end torque is so good. But its reliable, he'll tell you so.

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=95154&page=59

[zach09]

Thanks I just read a lot on that link. made me think of another question what i should use for torque specs the f22a head specs or f23a specs?

[zach09]

I think I will do this which is for the f22a
1st step 29lb ft
2nd step 51lb ft
3rd step 78lb ft

The f23 is the same for the 1st and 2nd step but the 3rd step is 72lb ft not 78 lb ft.

sense ill be using the f22a head I think I should go with the f22a specs

[Mishakol129]

Thanks I just read a lot on that link. made me think of another question what i should use for torque specs the f22a head specs or f23a specs?

I'd use the F22a/b specs since its simpler. The F23 makes you use a degree wheel.
Ask the guy in the the thread. I know that the F23 head bolt specs give you a much higher torque spec when you do it that way.

The instructions for the F23 are:

"Torque them to 22lb. and then turn 90 degrees twice. If they are new bolts do a third 90 degree. You will start at the back center and work your way out, alternating side to side."

http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...20&postcount=2


This guy said he ended up with 102 Ft lbs which is way above the 76 lbs of the F22a/b head bolts:

http://www.hondaaccordforum.com/foru...50/#post199519

"So basically the final torque i ended up with is about 102 ft-lbs. your results may vary. and i am in NO WAY telling you to go torquing your head bolts to 102. that's just what i ended up with."


I don't think I would torque to that much, maybe 85 ft lbs, no more.

[jdm92_accorn]

the f22a/b, f22b dohc and f23a are all the same mls headgasket from felpro which is the gasket i've always used. if you are using f22a/b non vtec head go by those torque specs, if using the f23 head go by it's torque specs. the vtec heads are taller and use longer bolts which is why they are torqued tighter. as far as this head swap it is very safe. it is really no different than a stock f22a1,4,6 that cam in the car. it builds more low end power so it doesnt need to rev as high to get out in traffic to in reality it should be more reliable and live longer.

[zach09]

If someone has any insight on what specs I should use to torque the head down with the swap please fill me in.

Thanks!

[zach09]

the f22a/b, f22b dohc and f23a are all the same mls headgasket from felpro which is the gasket i've always used. if you are using f22a/b non vtec head go by those torque specs, if using the f23 head go by it's torque specs. the vtec heads are taller and use longer bolts which is why they are torqued tighter. as far as this head swap it is very safe. it is really no different than a stock f22a1,4,6 that cam in the car. it builds more low end power so it doesnt need to rev as high to get out in traffic to in reality it should be more reliable and live longer.

Great! Sorry didn't see your post tell after I wrote my last comment. That's great news and I am glad to hear that. The only thing that gets me is that the f22a head gasket and f23a head gasket are different part numbers? I have yet to compare side buy side or on top of each other. But with fel pro as many know if you open can not return.

[AccRod91ex]

the f22a/b, f22b dohc and f23a are all the same mls headgasket from felpro which is the gasket i've always used. if you are using f22a/b non vtec head go by those torque specs, if using the f23 head go by it's torque specs. the vtec heads are taller and use longer bolts which is why they are torqued tighter. as far as this head swap it is very safe. it is really no different than a stock f22a1,4,6 that cam in the car. it builds more low end power so it doesnt need to rev as high to get out in traffic to in reality it should be more reliable and live longer.

This guy has one of the most epic build threads I've seen. Also make sure you remove the sharp edges in the combustion chamber around the bores as these will be your hotspot areas. You'll see a sight bump in compression but not enough to need a new ecu or a tune. Use your same harness since the head won't be changed. Should be just as reliable as the guys over at d-series do mini-me swaps all the time and since this is basically a big block d with balance shafts you should be fine.