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Stumped: Brake Lamp Failure Warning Indicator ON

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    #1

    Stumped: Brake Lamp Failure Warning Indicator ON

    I have a 1993 Accord LX. The brake lamp failed warning indicator in the instrument
    panel is on constantly. Its in the cluster that includes the door and trunk
    ajar lights and is located just below the trunk ajar light in the bottom right
    corner of the instrument panel. All the brake lights are working properly, so it seems that the warning light should be off.

    A few weeks ago, it would be on or off randomly depending on the day, but usually it was either on or off for an entire engine cycle (e.g one direction of my commute). Now it is on constantly. The light is on even if the keyswitch is moved to position II and the brake pedal is not depressed.

    I have read posts on several forums suggesting a number of options for repair.
    I have tried:
    1. Removing corrosion by cleaning bulb contacts and contacts on left bulb sensor.
      NOTE: Right light assembly including bulb sensor was replaced a few years ago, so the contacts are shiny and new. The left bulb sensor contacts were slightly corroded
      and would not reliably provide continuity, but after cleaning they are conducting well.
    2. Removing both right and left lights from the circuit and shorting white with green stripe wire to the black ground wire (pin 1 & 2) at the left rear harness connector that leads to the front of the vehicle. The light stays ON! This I don't understand.
    3. Checking continuity between light assembly to vehicle harness connector and the back side of the brown sensor modules circuit board, so I know the problem is not in the light assembly harness or the (now cleaned) pins of the sensor itself or the connector leading from the light assembly harness into the brown sensor module.


    Neither of the above seem to solve the problem. I have also:
    • With the key in POS II measured 12V between white with green stripe wire and the black wire at the same connector described above when the harness is disconnected. With the harness connected to the bulb sensor and the rest of the light assembly the voltage drops to zero. I believe this is reasonable as current is now flowing through the diode. What is confusing is that the light stays ON in this configuration as well. I thought with current flowing through the diode the instrument panel light would go off.
    • Tested diode inside brown (left) warning indicator module (D0 CC25 ) while disconnected from the rest of the system with analog multimeter to verify conduction diode conduction with one polarization and open circuit with opposite polarization.


    Other ideas to solve this? I'm stumped. Does anyone know details of the circuit inside the instrument panel? Is it just a bulb attached to the white with green stripe wire or are there other discrete (solid state) components inside the instrument panel that could fail and trigger the panel light to be on? Is the panel light stateful? Does something need to be reset after a repair to make the light go out (similar to check engine lights)?

    I haven't tried replacing the brown bulb sensor module. It will take a few days and a few bucks to get one of those, but given the short circuit configuration isn't disabling the fault light I have my doubts if replacing the brown module will help.

    Any guidance appreciated.
    Last edited by 1993accorder; 12-29-2013, 09:33 AM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Crazy question, have you checked your brake fluid level?

    That light will also illuminate if there are excessive pressure differences in your braking channels (the master cylinder runs two channels) and it'll also come on if your Ebrake is engaged or at least the switch thinks the e brake is engaged.

    Good luck!

    Comment

      #3
      I'm assuming you know electronics from your detailed description of the circuits involved, and great work on the research too. Do your brake lights stay on? and/or is there a noticable difference when you push the pedal compared to not pushingh the pedal?

      (I'm thinking of a voltage drop/circuit break in the wires)

      Comment

        #4
        Most likely a faulty ground somewhere else in the car thats keeping the circuit open.
        Originally posted by wed3k
        im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

        Comment

          #5
          I worked on this a while a couple of years ago but never fixed it. I looked at it again last summer and even put in junkyard sensors--first the brown one and then the black one--but no luck. The dash indicator still stays on most times. I do notice that it always comes on on rainy days or when it has just finished raining, so I think moisture plays a role in the problem. I think somewhere along the path from the brown sensor to the dash, something has corroded and can no longer talk to the sensor in the back.

          I want to pull the cluster out and see if any visible trouble spot is there, but I haven't had time or the motivation to go through a lot more work for that light. I hate having things evade me, but I had to let that one go. By the way, it's a common problem with the CB7 (and possibly others Hondas) so if you happen to find the trouble and fix it, please post the fix. That will help out thousands of people who've resorted to putting black tape on the cluster lens so they don't have to look at that light.

          Comment

            #6
            could be a silly question/statement, are you running any LED's? Inside or out? I know mine is on all the time because I have LED's in my convenience door lights and dome lights.

            There is also a thread somewhere on here that talks about LED's causing that light to stay on....perhaps search LED and Brake to find...

            smac
            Last edited by smac; 01-02-2014, 10:33 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              Did u try the 3rd brake lamp bulb I just had the same problem happen to me and it was that hope it helps

              Comment

                #8
                Well my light doesn't stay on all the time, it only comes on once in a while and it goes away after leaving the car off for while. I think the problem is in the cluster. I have LED on my convenient and dome lights. I don't think these bulbs tie to the sensor.

                Originally posted by smac View Post
                could be a silly question/statement, are you running any LED's? Inside or out? I know mine is on all the time because I have LED's in my convenience door lights and dome lights.

                There is also a thread somewhere on here that talks about LED's causing that light to stay on....perhaps search LED and Brake to find...

                smac

                Comment

                  #9
                  This guy, NightmareCBT, found the problem. An old, oxidized, possibly moisture-damaged solder connection in the cluster that intermittently makes that system "think" that a tail bulb is burned out or missing. See photo's in the linked thread.

                  I wish I felt proficient enough to take apart my cluster like he did. But, other than that brake lamp indicator being on a lot, everything else on my cluster works properly, and I don't want to have to go searching for a 93 MT cluster due to destroying the one I have.

                  http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=196101&page=3

                  Comment

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