F22A6 to Blue top

[MrBreakdown]

Hi! Thanks for viewing.

So, I'm rather new to the accord scene, i had a 90 coupe, but that.... just... failed. its totaled. got my paws on a clean '92 EX coupe, with really high miles on an F22A6 that burns a quart every 1K miles. in the lower 400K, to be exact.

basically, I want to pick some brains about a swap to a Bluetop.

so, simple questions first-

1. is it direct fit? (meaning, will i have to get any different mounts, customize any parts in order to make it fit?)

2. will i absolutely NEED to go manual, or does the engine bolt into my auto tranny already installed? if not, how hard is an ATM swap?

3. would it be more worth the money (or more reliable) to just set aside another F22A6 block, and bore it to a larger size for a little more of a kick?
I'm not insanely interested in performance, i want something that'll last and that is dependable.( I already am in the process of dropping and getting exhaust worked out, along with rim setups planned out, that's pretty much all I'm gonna do.)

[Joey GT-R]

The H23A is not a direct drop in. You will have to covert to OBD2 which for some people has been a pain.


The H23A should mount up to any F/H automatic transmission.


I don't know how much "kick" you are looking for, so that depends on you. You're easily going to spend probably over a good $1000+ especially if you have to pay a shop to do it. So if that outweighs the benefit you may want to look into another F series.


I suggest you do more research though.

[MrBreakdown]

The H23A is not a direct drop in. You will have to covert to OBD2 which for some people has been a pain.


The H23A should mount up to any F/H automatic transmission.


I don't know how much "kick" you are looking for, so that depends on you. You're easily going to spend probably over a good $1000+ especially if you have to pay a shop to do it. So if that outweighs the benefit you may want to look into another F series.


I suggest you do more research though.

I've looked into boring out F22A6, and from what im getting, it's possible to bore and drop H pistons in, but really, would this block be too old to do it with? it's my DD, so i think i may just build another F22A6 on the side.

[deevergote]

.1L is really not that big a deal. The H23A (we don't say "blue top" or "red top" here) only makes 1.5ft-lbs more than the H22A, and only 200rpm lower. The horsepower is the same (and with a similar difference in peak rpm.)

You do not need to convert your car to OBD2, you need to convert the H23A to OBD1. That means new injectors and distributor, as well as a custom ECU (which will never be as good as a stock ECU.)

My advice is to simply install an H22A. You can get them in OBD1 form, which means you can get the proper ECU, and you won't need to go searching for injectors or a distributor. The H22A swap is very well documented on this site, as well as on other reputable Honda sites. The engine was available in the US, so parts will be easy to find.

[Jarrett]

To further Deev's point about the "Bluetop" issue we don't know if you mean F20B or H23A. Joey just assumed you meant the H23A.

[MrBreakdown]

thank you.

I highly appreciate your insight, gents. I'm gonna go shop for an H23A now.

so, if i were to get a block that noone wanted, say it has a spun rod bearing, and rebuilt it, what sort of internals would you recommend?

[Joey GT-R]

You do not need to convert your car to OBD2, you need to convert the H23A to OBD1. That means new injectors and distributor, as well as a custom ECU (which will never be as good as a stock ECU.)

Wait, that engine is OBD2 since it's from 98 correct? I'm thinking OBD1 to OBD2 conversion harness....maybe I'm wrong in that?

I've looked into boring out F22A6, and from what im getting, it's possible to bore and drop H pistons in, but really, would this block be too old to do it with? it's my DD, so i think i may just build another F22A6 on the side.

H22A pistons are not compatible with F22A blocks, they are made of different material that's matched inside the bore of the cylinders.

To further Deev's point about the "Bluetop" issue we don't know if you mean F20B or H23A. Joey just assumed you meant the H23A.

Well wouldn't anyone assume the DOHC VTEC H23A if he said "Bluetop"?

[MrBreakdown]

where do i find a good amount of all this info?

just curious, where would one find info on all this? ive trolled the forums for threads related, and i sure as hell can't find the swap thread. I've seen it before, tho.

[Joey GT-R]

There is no "answer all" thread for the information you are looking for. What needs to happen (and what generally works best) is to search for little bits of information at once and using multiple threads build a giant picture.

[deevergote]

The H23A swap is very similar to the OBD2 H22A swap, which is pretty well documented.
Still, it's more hassle than it's worth, honestly.

Wait, that engine is OBD2 since it's from 98 correct? I'm thinking OBD1 to OBD2 conversion harness....maybe I'm wrong in that?
H22A pistons are not compatible with F22A blocks, they are made of different material that's matched inside the bore of the cylinders.
Well wouldn't anyone assume the DOHC VTEC H23A if he said "Bluetop"?

Both the H23A and F20B have blue valve covers (yet another reason why we don't use the valve cover color for identification... just as the H22A Type S and Euro R both have red valve covers.)

H22A pistons would probably work just fine in an F22A, as long as the bore matched. I don't believe the coating on the pistons will be hazardous to the iron sleeves. It's the non-coated F22A pistons that will damage the sleeves in an H22A.

And yes, I suppose a conversion harness could be used. I'm not terribly familiar with conversion harnesses, however... and I don't know anyone that has actually used one. SO, I generally don't treat them as an option. Half because I don't KNOW that they're going to be a viable solution, and half because I don't feel like responding to the inevitable "where do I get one? what's the best one to get? how do I install it?" questions.

[HappyGilmore]

To further Deev's point about the "Bluetop" issue we don't know if you mean F20B or H23A. Joey just assumed you meant the H23A.

Yes because I thought F20B when I read this. Being that the bore on that head is 85 mm as opposed to the 87 mm that the H23A (VTEC) has.

Also, wouldn't you need to change the fuel rail as well on the H23A to make it OBD I as well?

To the OP: As mentioned above the H22 all around a much better choice. Plenty of get up out of the box and mounts right in with the addition of 3 wires (knock sensor, VTEC oil pressure switch, and it's solenoid, and ECU of course). Simple and pretty inexpensive. Hope this helps.

[Joey GT-R]

H22A pistons would probably work just fine in an F22A, as long as the bore matched. I don't believe the coating on the pistons will be hazardous to the iron sleeves. It's the non-coated F22A pistons that will damage the sleeves in an H22A.

That's been done? I imagine probably not because to overbore a stock sleeve 2mm is a stretch as far as reliability and if you're sleeving you probably have the coin to get pistons actually for the motor. I'm curious though to what effects that might have on the iron sleeves though.

[Jarrett]

Yes because I thought F20B when I read this. Being that the bore on that head is 85 mm as opposed to the 87 mm that the H23A (VTEC) has.

Also, wouldn't you need to change the fuel rail as well on the H23A to make it OBD I as well?

To the OP: As mentioned above the H22 all around a much better choice. Plenty of get up out of the box and mounts right in with the addition of 3 wires (knock sensor, VTEC oil pressure switch, and it's solenoid, and ECU of course). Simple and pretty inexpensive. Hope this helps.

There isn't a "bore" on the head. It's just the combustion chamber diameter. And you should change the fuel rail on any swap to retain your OEM fuel rail. Not necessary for USDM H22A1 swaps but it's nice to think of as a general rule in order to keep injector compatability the same OBD1 style and to keep the fuel line feed on the correct side.

That's been done? I imagine probably not because to overbore a stock sleeve 2mm is a stretch as far as reliability and if you're sleeving you probably have the coin to get pistons actually for the motor. I'm curious though to what effects that might have on the iron sleeves though.

Wes is the only one I know to have worked on it and he hasn't successfully pulled it off. He's also busy with other things besides Honda projects and that's likely most of the reason. I'm sure it could but strength under high rpms or boost would likely cause it to fail. People break sleeves in these engines as it is. But 86mm is generally considered a safe overbore.

[Joey GT-R]

Wes is the only one I know to have worked on it and he hasn't successfully pulled it off. He's also busy with other things besides Honda projects and that's likely most of the reason. I'm sure it could but strength under high rpms or boost would likely cause it to fail. People break sleeves in these engines as it is. But 86mm is generally considered a safe overbore.

That's what I figured. The last thing I wanted was for this guy to go out and do it(since cost would be fairly cheap), and end up having a paperweight.

[MrBreakdown]

I went to a local machine shop, asked around a little for advice, and they simply shrugged, and said, unanimously, the engine would be so thin- sleeved, that if you got on it for a little bit, even passing someone on the highway, it would probably break all four cylinder walls. F22a6 is not meant for H22's high comp pistons. however, they did say, and i have yet to look them up, that there are much lower comp pistons, and just buying a bare block for $200, and building my own engine from the ground up is much more fun.-cue paw rubbing and cackling-