sleeving alternative

[v8vega355]

http://www.cylindersupportsystem.com/

has anyone tried this for their f22ax build yet

[Joey GT-R]

This was discussed recently, but to my knowledge nobody in this community has done so. You're more than welcome to be a pioneer though.

[deevergote]

It looks like a fairly decent option, at $300-$500 cheaper than most full sleeve jobs. Not bad. The custom-machined 100% contact approach is better than a block guard, which is essentially just wedged down around the sleeves. I think I'd still prefer a full sleeve job... I mean, if you're spending $700, why not spend $1000 if it ends up being a better option in the long run (not saying it is, as this CSS option is a new one that I have not yet researched fully.)

Unlike a block guard, I wouldn't tell someone not to give this a shot. This looks like a pretty legit approach.

[v8vega355]

well im doing a sub 400 hp build but it seams like most people are worried about the cylinders moving around on anything more then 300hp i would like to just have 350+ bragging rights. and not have to worry about thing breaking. i found a thread on a different site on these and the guy decided to try to break a sleeve just to see how far it would go and he had dynoed his motor at 670ish hp and it was still running on stock sleeves without breaking them. plus i like head room. i was just hoping that somone had ran this on an f22 or if im going to be the first one.

[deevergote]

Chances are good that you'll be the first one, at least among this crowd (I know the guys running F22As in Civics and such can often get crazier than we do here...)

Yeah, I wouldn't be comfortable trusting more than 350whp on the stock sleeves. I think this would probably be a good option, seeing as you're not looking to do anything really crazy (and IMO, more than 300-350whp in our relatively lightweight FWD cars is nearly impossible to really use anyway!)
Their approach makes sense, their presentation is believable (they don't seem to be making any crazy claims), and it is CERTAINLY better than a generic pressed-in block guard.

As long as it's machined to fit, it won't be a risk of cylinder warpage, as a block guard might (due to a poor fit, or due to the block guard shifting over time.) As long as your boost levels aren't high enough to crack a secured cylinder, and you avoid anything else that could do it (detonation, poorly fitting pistons, etc...) then I don't see why this wouldn't be every bit as reliable as a full sleeve for your goals.

[illinois_erik]

theres this old process where you strip the block down plug it up however fitting, and fill the water jacket with salt tamped down, they either poured some molten metal in or today they have some high tech metal epoxy they pour in. after the hardening you flush the block out with water, this way you could have a 10mm thick guard if you wanted.. so anyway this procedure the OP is showing is for F and/or H's with open deck? I thought the main thing was sleeeves not guards to be done..i mean a boosted F..Id block it. with the salt method to boot. but yeah this and sleeves are two different things. i guess theres 1 alternative with sleeving the H's unlike the darton where the original cylinders are milled away leaving a pocket for the pressed in darton cylinder with o-ring seals at the bottom;this other type is a ductile iron sleeve i guess, more like a shim. the original cylinder (frm,this could probably be done to F's) is bored out about 20 thou and this l33t ductile iron skin is pressed in, then a block plane. or the mythological mahle pistons with some special coating and special rings that the FRM liners of the H wont decimate. but people say they have severe issues 30k into it and thats if your valves dont slam the shit out of them first (supposedly corrected)

[deevergote]

theres this old process where you strip the block down plug it up however fitting, and fill the water jacket with salt tamped down, they either poured some molten metal in or today they have some high tech metal epoxy they pour in. after the hardening you flush the block out with water, this way you could have a 10mm thick guard if you wanted.. so anyway this procedure the OP is showing is for F and/or H's with open deck? I thought the main thing was sleeeves not guards to be done..i mean a boosted F..Id block it. with the salt method to boot. but yeah this and sleeves are two different things. i guess theres 1 alternative with sleeving the H's unlike the darton where the original cylinders are milled away leaving a pocket for the pressed in darton cylinder with o-ring seals at the bottom;this other type is a ductile iron sleeve i guess, more like a shim. the original cylinder (frm,this could probably be done to F's) is bored out about 20 thou and this l33t ductile iron skin is pressed in, then a block plane. or the mythological mahle pistons with some special coating and special rings that the FRM liners of the H wont decimate. but people say they have severe issues 30k into it and thats if your valves dont slam the shit out of them first (supposedly corrected)

You almost made sense at the beginning of this rant, but you completely lost me...

[rzgibbs]

For someone like me who will never really pass 300 whp, this seems like a good alternative to save a little change. Perhaps I will be the first guinea pig. I also sometimes visit NH, so this could be an excuse to drive a little north : P

[Joey GT-R]

For people like you, this makes sense. But for people in places like Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc like myself. You would be better off doing a full sleeve job because you would get killed on the shipping. Darton has a sleeving facility in Northern Va. The money I save right there would pay the extra loot for a full sleeve.

[J_Hart]

I don't see the necessity in this. It's guaranteed up to 500whp, but I don't trust the stock sleeves to hold 500whp. On the other hand, I think the stock F-series sleeves are just fine 400whp, so I don't see the necessity for this there either. I guess it's a matter of where you draw the line, huh?

If I had to ship a block off for work to support 500+hp, I'd rather just have the darn thing re-sleeved anyway.

[deevergote]

I'd be wary of pushing the stock sleeves to a full 400hp. 300hp, maybe... it should hold. 400hp could be pushing the limits. Due more to the open deck design than to the strength of the sleeves, though.

[J_Hart]

I'd be wary of pushing the stock sleeves to a full 400hp. 300hp, maybe... it should hold. 400hp could be pushing the limits. Due more to the open deck design than to the strength of the sleeves, though.

400hp is certainly less forgiving to errors than 300hp if you have a poor tune, but really nothing to be overly concerned about with a proper tune. I personally draw the line between 400hp and 450hp since you run into other issues (octane limit of pump gas, etc) beyond that point, and if you're shooting for 450, why not build for 500hp, or 600hp? That's when I'd go sleeved.

[Joey GT-R]

I'd be wary of pushing the stock sleeves to a full 400hp. 300hp, maybe... it should hold. 400hp could be pushing the limits. Due more to the open deck design than to the strength of the sleeves, though.

Not to say that this is a given, but NWAccord made 600whp on stock sleeves. But I'm sure he's taken ever other precaution other than sleeving. That's not to say his block won't crack eventually. Plus that car as far as I know is not daily driven so the abuse is kept to a minimum.