turbo preparation.

[rzgibbs]

My 200 dollar 90 ex sedan with 158,000 miles is about to start the prep for my first turbo build. To avoid wife aggro, I would like to stick to a budget of $2000 to $2500 dollars for block strengthening and turbo setup together.

Ideally Id like to see a final number of approximately ~250 whp. From all my lurking, I've surmised that the block itself can hold this much power, but for me to use this car as a DD and for fun, I'll need to get some new internals.

What I would like to get is a) not the minimum, but a decent budget build of internals to replace and ultimately b) know whether this whp number matches with my budget. Thoughts?

[deevergote]

That's a REALLY low budget for everything. It's doable, but for a proper build, you're going to have to be capable of installing everything yourself. Even then, you'll most likely be using absolute bottom of the barrel cheap parts.

You'll need forged pistons. For 250whp, you can probably get away with the stock sleeves. Forged rods would be smart, but it's possible to modify stock rods work.
The head can stay completely stock.
You'll need a tunable ECU, and the necessary knowledge and equipment to properly tune it.
Your turbo setup would probably be cheapest if you piece it together. I think Treadstone still makes a kit for our cars for a fairly reasonable price if you want to go that route.
You'll need a stronger clutch. The torque increase from a turbo will fry an old clutch quickly. If you're auto... that's a whole different can of worms.


Keep in mind that you're not only spending money on the go-fast parts, but also on seals, gaskets, fluids, etc... not to mention replacing parts that currently need to be replaced for the car to be safe (axles, ball joints, brakes, etc...), but also parts that break during the turbo install (and on a $200 car, chances are there are PLENTY of parts that will need to be replaced!)

If you have a $2000 budget, and you've planned it all out part for part... expect it to end up costing $4000 in the end.

[rzgibbs]

I will be doing almost all the work myself. I am willing to take the final product to a shop for the tune and exclude that cost from my original budget. My brother in law started his service manager career in the garage in this particular house. The result is a practically exclusive use of a lift, compression tools and a few specialty tools that have really accelerated my knowledge and skill as I delve into mechanics.
Having said that, I live technically in the greater NYC area. Id be happy to provide time on the lift exchange for broadening my tech knowledge. My next particular skill I will be tackling is mig welding.

As far as forged pistons go, are there a few brands that are less-high end but thought of as reliable that you can recommend?

The axles, ball joints, upper arms, fluid flushes, brakes and a few other repairs have already been done in the last couple weeks. This was all necessitated by a frozen open nissin caliper sitting in the wrong bracket, or vice versa. the caliper metal literally sat over top the outside of the brackets. No amount of pushing power would ever be able to allow contact of the brake pads with the rotor. When I drove the car home from NJ, it had maybe 15% braking power and a massive helicopter noise. Regardless, I appear to have saved the car from certain death with the fixes. This week and next week will be a6 cam swap, seals, water pump, d cap gaskets, and cl hub swap. After that, it will be time for block strengthening and mig practicing. : )

[deevergote]

Bisimoto's $450 forged turbo pistons are the best deal I'm aware of. There may be cheaper around, but I don't know of them.

[cgr-honda]

You could also look into a Mitsubishi turbo for your goals. What kind of pull are you looking for? A quick spool, or a screamer up top?

[deevergote]

Mitsubishi is just one of a number of quality turbo manufacturers.

[jhoff]

Mitsubishi is just one of a number of quality turbo manufacturers.

LOL.
Doesnt matter if your doing all the work yourself.
Think how old your platform is.
Your starting with a 120hp and going to 250hp.
Be smart, take your time and do it right the first time.

[toycar]

LOL.
Doesnt matter if your doing all the work yourself.
Think how old your platform is.
Your starting with a 120hp and going to 250hp.
Be smart, take your time and do it right the first time.

lol@what exactly?



14b and 16g turbos are amazing turbos for these cars if you set them up correctly. 250whp is 16g territory, but for the cost compared you can't get a better cheaper turbo/manifold for this car.


And the 14b has a lot in common with the 16g, and can be modified to accept a 16g compressor housing/wheel.


Mitsu turbo's or bust if both on a budget and want reliable.

[jhoff]

I was laughing at Deev.
Alot of people use DSM turbos to start their projects. Its not a bad thought. I wouldnt start their, just because DSM's are not known for their reliability.

[deevergote]

DSM is a collaboration between Chrysler and Mitsubishi. DSM did not make turbos. Mitsubishi makes turbos. They actually manufacture them, like Garrett, IHI, etc...

Mitsubishi turbos are most often found used on Mitsubishi vehicles (largely DSMs). While a 20+ year old junkyard 14b can be a very inexpensive way to boost your Honda, it's going to need a proper rebuild before it can be considered reliable. Rebuilding a turbo isn't terribly difficult, but quality parts must be made, and it must be done correctly... or it will not be reliable. Having it done professionally might make the final cost damn close to simply buying a new one. A new Mitsubishi turbocharger will likely be as expensive as any other quality brand.


As for DSMs not being known for their reliability... much of that reputation is due to the owners, not the cars. The 4G63 is one of the great 4 cylinder engines of our time. Mitsubishi's AWD system, while seeming to be needlessly complex, has proven itself many times in racing (the same system found in the AWD DSM models is what has been used in the Lancer Evo models over the years...) As stated, Mitsubishi turbos are top notch.
Unreliable DSMs are due to idiot kids that boost the shit out of them, launch them every chance they get, and then whine when they break. That, and the crankwalk issue that came with the 7 bolt 4G63... but that threat is long past. Any that will have walked HAVE walked by now.

[jhoff]

Ive always like the Galant VR4, total sleeper.
Anyway, good luck on your build. There are many well built turbo CBs on the forum.

My favorite is Boost_Lee.

Off Topic...

[rzgibbs]

Will Bisimoto make the pistons to fit? The turbo pistons I see are 86mm. The more I research the more I'm inclined to scrap the turbo budget and turn that budget into an overbored sleeve, pistons/rods, and an aggressive cam grind, then save the turbo for another few months down the road.

I know that in general I want lower compression if I am going to turbo, but if everything is reinforced, can I go higher compression to start (like 11 or 12:1) if the end result of my planning is going to max at out 250 whp?

Also thanks for the Treadstone recommendation. That kit looks perfect for my needs.

[deevergote]

Resleeving with Darton or Golden Eagle sleeves would be the wisest course of action, though perhaps a bit overkill for 250whp. Still, if you do that, you can be absolutely sure that the engine will last. Sleeved and properly assembled with quality parts, that engine would be more reliable than a brand new factory turbo engine.

You could make 250whp N/A... but that would be a very difficult engine to drive on the street. A friend of mine did a similar build, and it cost him nearly $10,000 to do it right.
11 or 12:1 compression with turbo would be very difficult to tune without damaging things.

250whp with turbo and a quality build is cake. Totally driveable, still potentially fuel efficient.
250whp N/A is pretty much the limit of a street-driven F22A... and it's a ragged limit. It would be as unpleasant to drive on the street as, say, a 700hp FWD car.

[speedfr3ak]

any way i had to comment diamond star motors that bunch i ran a 99 gst nice car loved it until 1 daymy crank needed a leash ahahahhhhahahaha crank walkin mo fooos! but the turbo on them are fine just ONLY unreliable thing is crank walk other than that good cars! boost-boost-\\boost=juice

[rzgibbs]

I figure if I resleeve it, if I ever do get an itch to go beyond 250, I wont be so nervous about a crack. Time to find a cheap f22a block and send it off!