My car won't start and I'm running out of things to fix

[menotyou48]

So the other day I went to start my car (91 EX sedan 5spd) and it sputtered some and stalled, then when I tried again the starter motor ran but the solenoid didn't engage and the starter motor continued running after I removed the key. So I replaced a remanufactured starter motor with bad insulation with an OEM starter and it would crank but not start. Which made me think it might not be getting a spark, so I installed new spark plugs cleaned the plug wires and cleaned a little corrosion off the dizzy cap and rotor. It still would not start but it gave me a CEL code 15, so I replaced the ignitor and cleared the code. It still would not start and did not throw up any new codes. I thought maybe during the taking the dizzy off and on I turned it 180 degrees, but it seems that it is keyed and won't fit if I purposely turn it. I checked the compression on cylinders 1 and 2 and I get 100-120 psi on both, haven't checked 3 and 4 yet. And when I loosened the fuel line at the fuel rail gas leaks out immediately. The entire intake manifold including the fuel rail were taken from a 93 EX that I had a couple years ago and cleaned which solved a funny idle it had with the original intake manifold. Although I think the no start might be fuel related, when I looked in the trunk found the fuel pickup access panel missing all of its screws which I suspect may have been related to quirk the car had with both intake manifolds. Where the car would stall out if you took a right turn with a quarter tank or less of gas and would 'run out' of gas long before the light came on. I think the previous owner may have been an idiot, he installed 14" chrome rims on and EX that had stock 15" and cut off the entire exhaust behind the cat and I'm pretty sure the head unit for his cd changer was installed with a hammer (but that is all fixed now), and if he took those screws out to try to run wires to his cd changer something is probably broken around there. Or do you guys think it could be something else since there is fuel at the rail, but I don't know if there is any pressure behind the fuel.

[Ralphie]

So the other day I went to start my car (91 EX sedan 5spd) and it sputtered some and stalled, then when I tried again the starter motor ran but the solenoid didn't engage and the starter motor continued running after I removed the key. So I replaced a remanufactured starter motor with bad insulation with an OEM starter and it would crank but not start. Which made me think it might not be getting a spark, so I installed new spark plugs cleaned the plug wires and cleaned a little corrosion off the dizzy cap and rotor. It still would not start but it gave me a CEL code 15, so I replaced the ignitor and cleared the code. It still would not start and did not throw up any new codes. I thought maybe during the taking the dizzy off and on I turned it 180 degrees, but it seems that it is keyed and won't fit if I purposely turn it. I checked the compression on cylinders 1 and 2 and I get 100-120 psi on both, haven't checked 3 and 4 yet. And when I loosened the fuel line at the fuel rail gas leaks out immediately. The entire intake manifold including the fuel rail were taken from a 93 EX that I had a couple years ago and cleaned which solved a funny idle it had with the original intake manifold. Although I think the no start might be fuel related, when I looked in the trunk found the fuel pickup access panel missing all of its screws which I suspect may have been related to quirk the car had with both intake manifolds. Where the car would stall out if you took a right turn with a quarter tank or less of gas and would 'run out' of gas long before the light came on. I think the previous owner may have been an idiot, he installed 14" chrome rims on and EX that had stock 15" and cut off the entire exhaust behind the cat and I'm pretty sure the head unit for his cd changer was installed with a hammer (but that is all fixed now), and if he took those screws out to try to run wires to his cd changer something is probably broken around there. Or do you guys think it could be something else since there is fuel at the rail, but I don't know if there is any pressure behind the fuel.

Did you inspect the fuel area under the cover?

Do you smell gas anywhere?

I would not suspect a leak because(unless im wrong) you have pressure if the fuel leaks immediately at the rail if disconnected.

So currently it isn't throwing a CEL?

Def check pres on cyl 3 and 4, if for any other reason to rule that out, and id def inspect the fuel system under the plate under the rear seat...

it does sound fuel related but im not sure how since you have fuel at the rail...

When you go to crank it, do you hear the sending unit kick on?

id check anyway since it was missing all the screws(and then replace said screws on your way out)

[KLEENKREW]

I would suggest checking fuel Pressure. Just because you have fuel at the rail doesn't mean you have good fuel pressure. I would suspect it you have spark and compression and everything else looks good then you may not have fuel. Could be a pump on its last leg or a plugged filter possible and faulty main relay too.

[ProSouth]

i dont have a book with me for specs and havent done a google search, but 100-120 psi is low. my engine has 180 across all four. any 4 stroke engine depending on actual engine design should have 140 or more. was your car smoking or anything? burning oil or coolant?
also take one of your old plugs, pull a cap, stick an old plug in it and lay it across something metal to ground it and see if its sparking.

EDIT: take your highest compression spec. say 180. you want your specs to be within 10-15% of each other. so within 18-27lbs of your highest spec. so the LOWEST compression spec you should have if your highest is 180, would be 153lbs roughly. i generally call an engine out of spec if they are not within 10% of each other. just a personal preference.

[dj_ender]

The entire intake manifold including the fuel rail were taken from a 93 EX that I had a couple years ago and cleaned which solved a funny idle it had with the original intake manifold.

ECU ground on the thermostat housing possibly?

[Stoner51]

ECU ground on the thermostat housing possibly?

Where exactly is this? I don't think I have one.

steve

[alan lx]

Keep your diagnosis simple. You need spark (blue spark, yellow is no good), compression, fuel, and timing. It's usually something your just overlooking, I say that because it's happened to me before. Keep us posted on the status.

[KLEENKREW]

Where exactly is this? I don't think I have one.

steve

Should be bolt to bottom of thermostat housing. Follow top radiator hose to thermostat housing. Ground is bolt underneath radiator hose.

Keep your diagnosis simple. You need spark (blue spark, yellow is no good), compression, fuel, and timing. It's usually something your just overlooking, I say that because it's happened to me before. Keep us posted on the status.

This is a good advice. A lot of people over look the small things and just assume the worst. Sometimes it is the worst though.

[oyajicool]

Minimum spec for compression reading is 135 psi.
Even if one or two cylinder is out of spec by more than 10%, the engine will start and run. My LX is one such example.

If the ECU ground is no hooked up, the CEL will be lit and stay lit. The engine does not run. My Civic did that when I did engine R/R and forgot to connect that ground.

[menotyou48]

Thanks for all the replies. The ECU ground got me when I originally did the intake manifold but I fixed that and it was running for about a year since then. I don't smell any gas in the trunk but I also can not hear any fuel pump or pick up noise with the back seat folded down or from the filler cap. I think I'm going to go pick up a can of starter fluid and a fuel filter, if it starts with starter fluid then I'l know fuel is the problem and a new filter can't hurt. But the car currently in a gravel driveway so dropping the fuel tank to get at the pump doesn't look fun I hope it doesn't come to that.

[oyajicool]

If you don't hear your fuel pump priming, you may have faulty main relay, which is common trouble for our cars. You can by-pass main relay and see if fuel pump works. Or, remove the main relay and inspect solder joints for any sign of cracking or burning. The following link may help you.

http://techauto.tripod.com/

[alan lx]

If you have to get to the fuel pump, you can access that from the top. Pull back the carpet in the trunk, and there is an access from the top. On a sedan, and it is actually easier if you fold the top of the rear seat forward.

It's been a bit since I have done this, I am sure someone else will chime in here that's a little more up to date than myself. Keep us posted.

[Ralphie]

The last few posts have been good, all I wanted to touch on, is if you have to drain the fuel, you don't need to drop the tank.

There should be a drain plug towards the rear....i believe its the same size as the oil drain plug...13 or we.


And yes, the fuel system can also be accesed from above via the plate which I thought was under the back seat?

Maybe in the trunk i don't recall .

[menotyou48]

So I just walked to walmart (closest place that sells anything car related) they didn't have a fuel filter for a cb7 just for 94 and newer but I picked up some starter fluid. And it started and ran for a few seconds on the starter fluid. So now I'm pretty certain that it is a fuel delivery problem.

[oyajicool]

You said your fuel pump is not coming on. That pretty much says you have fuel delivery problem.

Why waste your time and money on starter fluid this time?