F22 hybrid build, input is nice

[Dragon_lowrider]

Ok, I'm building my f22, and here is what I'm going with so far, hoping it will work out, ok:

F22a block, bored to 86mm
K20a2 pistons
Arp stud kit all around
Stock crank
Stock rods rebushed for k20 pistons
F22b vtec head ported
Double valve springs
Titanium retainers
port matched im and tb
550cc injectors
A cam of some sort

Ok I'm looking into this, with the head and k20 pistons I'll be running around 11.5:1 compression, and around 250 horsepower, I'm looking into a computer and tuning for it, also will be mated to a manuel trans, lightened flywheel, lightened pulleys, was wondering on what oil pump to run, and thinking about doing the balance shaft delete, cuz the crank will be balanced while at the machine shop, but I was looking for some input on what you guys think

[Jarrett]

Your balancer shafts aren't what balance the engine. The rotating assembly is balanced from the factory. Your crankshaft, however, will need to be rebalanced because the counterweights will no longer be matched to the pistons and rods. That's if you want to do it right an for longevity. Most people elect not to because they're smarter than most engine builders.

It sounds like a decent build. Your compression is going to be high and will need a camshaft up to task of letting it breathe. Can I ask why you chose the F22B1 head? Especially since you're opening the bores up to 86mm, the F23A1 head seems the better choice.

[GhostAccord]

List looks pretty good.

250 will be a stretch to reach with these parts. F22B VTEC head will not get you there N/A withoug a tone of work. Stick with the F22A head!

The cam is really one of the major components to get 250hp out of your parts.

Stock oil pump will be fine.

There are many options for ECU's/EMS;s and tuning. Best option would be to contact your local tuner and talk your build over with them. Using hardware and software that your tuner is accustom to would be advisable.

Having the crank balanced by a shop will not make any difference in removing the balance shafts. All Honda cranks are balanced and blueprinted from the factory. The balance shafts are there to oppose the inline 4 cylinder setup that has two pistons up and two down. This is the vibration that the balance shafts are installed to remove. Balancing the crank will not remove this vibration.

Still a good thing to have your light weight flywheel, crank, rotating assy and crank pulley spun up to RPM and balanced at a shop.

Edit, jarrett beat me too it!

[PR CB7]

sorry to knock you out that cloud, but here in orlando there's a guy that already did this, he went as far as a $500 custom 4" intake manifold and bought a set of rmf headers for a h22, and had them cut and welded to a f22b flange, a bisi cam and the same pistons

could'nt even hit 220whp, so that power goal that you are looking for is virtually impossible with that head, not even with a h22 head you'll see those numbers

my recommendation is keep the block but opt for a f22a head of h22a head, but a power goal of 250 is impossible with 11.5 pistons

with a f22a head 215 maybe, depending on the cam
with a h22 head 225 guaranteed

as far as a oil pump, keep the stock one, but have the machineshop port and debur the passages, and a .010 shim on your relief
and you are set

the rsxs pistons is a great combination, but depending on the head that you choose will depend if you keep up with boltd on h22 or acutally pass them
good luck

[Dragon_lowrider]

Well I was going to go with the f22b head because of vtec, plus trying to keep it looking stock enough to pass smog here in Cali, it's going to be a daily driver, and not my race car, so reliability is the major, and thank you for clearing up the balance shafts, and it 200 horse with the stock head is possible with a cam in it I will go that way, I don't really want to go with the h22 head, like I said its my daily not my racer, when I get my coupe then I'll be building the big motor, but with this set up with and the stock f22a head and cam and 200 horse would be perfect, and if I'm doing that I can dial back my injectors a tad, but here in Cali where I live I don't know where to find a tuning shop, I live in the middle of the desert

[Jarrett]

Okay, now I'm confused. You say you intend to keep your stock F22A head and cam? While I would MUCH prefer the F22A head over the F22B1, you made it seem like you had already sourced a ported F22B1 head. If that's not the case, scrap that idea. VTEC on that engine is just good for roller followers on the camshaft and that's about it. If you're going to be porting, stick with the F22A.

You will NEED a camshaft to get past 160whp and probably won't even get to there. The compression provided by those pistons will go well with an aggressive camshaft, so that should make decent power.

[Dragon_lowrider]

Well I have both heads, but was planning ons bigger camshaft with either head, but if the f22a head is the better head then I'll use it over the vtec head, this is why I'm in here, trying to get the best set up for the money to be spent

[PR CB7]

it will also be impossible to pass emissions with something other than a oem cam

all aftermarket cams for the f/h motors are made for performance and not fuel economy

you want 250whp yet you want to pass emissions

the first thing you need to do is find yourself a tuner thats close, without the tuner there's no point on your build

[deevergote]

I hate to say it, but this seems like another "let's just throw a bunch of seemingly good parts together and hope for the best!" builds. It really doesn't seem like any true research has been done on this combination of parts.

First, boring the block on stock sleeves could create an issue. It MIGHT be fine, but remember... that block has gone through 20 years of extreme heat cycles. Making the cylinder walls thinner, only to subject them to even greater abuse... probably not the best idea.

K20 pistons have gained popularity in the Accord world because of the F23A block, which is already 86mm (and a good deal newer.) IMO, new K20 pistons aren't going to be THAT much cheaper than decent aftermarket, and they will offer less flexibility. Go aftermarket, and get EXACTLY what you want for this particular build. You're putting enough work and money into the engine already... a little more to ensure it does what you want is a good idea.

The F22B1 head isn't known for its performance capabilities. The F22A head, as shown by Bisimoto, has the ability to flow VERY well when properly ported. You will find better quality performance parts for the F22A than you will for the F22B1. The fact that you chose the F22B1 head simply for VTEC (which is on the intake side only on this head...) is what suggests to me that you've done very little research.

250whp is very unlikely to pass emissions with ANY older Honda engine. That's more than double the stock output (of both the F22A and F22B1). Any sniffer is going to throw fits at that. Not to mention, a 250whp SOHC isn't going to be the most forgiving daily driver. That's what all but the most hardcore tuners consider the absolute limit for the F22.

[PR CB7]

thats because a 250whp sohc vtec is NEVER happening

sorry to be so blunt

[Dragon_lowrider]

Being blunt is fine, otherwise how do you learn, so then what would you guys suggest me do? I need it to be reliable, around 200 horse and still pass emissions, with out spending a crap ton of money, the reason I was going that way is b/c I have all those parts laying around, like I said this is my daily, and kids will be in it aswell

[deevergote]

thats because a 250whp sohc vtec is NEVER happening

sorry to be so blunt

It's happened plenty of times. It's highly unlikely that THIS setup would do it, but there are tons of 250whp+ F22As rolling around. Only one or two on this site to my knowledge... but plenty of others (many in Civics.)

[Jarrett]

OP, I suggest you stop worrying about what combo you need to go with just yet. It's fairly obvious that you don't really know what it's going to take to get to your goals and your goals are a little off-beat from reality as PR_CB7 is trying to point out. If you have emissions to worry about, building an NA engine to get to 200+whp is your least efficient option.

[Dirtyrice]

You want 200hp, reliability, and inexpensive while passing emissions? What you need to do is swap in an H22 and get it BAR'd.

[PR CB7]

^^^ thank you