h22a1 swap problem

[deevergote]

Most people assume that any noob that comes on here with an H22 that doesn't run correctly, claiming to have a Spoon ECU... is probably running a fake POS and doesn't realize it. It happens often.

From the sounds of it, you might indeed have a true Spoon P13. The crossover is supposed to be smooth, unnoticeable in fact. It only "kicks" with a stock P13 because that kick sold a LOT of Preludes! It results in a dead spot just before the crossover, but the feeling that something is happening impressed buyers. Hell, I know this, and I still have my P28 programmed to cross over at 5200... I like the kick, and I'll take the slight loss in performance to get it!

Most generic chips claiming to be Spoon will often have a nice strong kick at the crossover, as people that don't know better think it's cool to "pop tec"... (I'm SO glad that phrase has fallen out of use.)


Still, get the engine running right on a bone-stock P13. Then use the modified stuff.
And yes, idling on a P28 probably won't do harm. It's nice to see you had the sense not to drive it. My car has been down for a bit, and when I started it back up, I installed my old PT3 instead of my chipped P28, in case there was some sort of surge that could fry the ECU. I still start and idle it on the PT3 every few weeks.

[mikey57]

Most people assume that any noob that comes on here with an H22 that doesn't run correctly, claiming to have a Spoon ECU... is probably running a fake POS and doesn't realize it. It happens often.

i can understand that. the guy who started this thread is a noob, but as stated i am his mechanic and have taken over this thread and im far from a noobie lol. i will also probably make a few threads on other forums that i am on.

yes, like i said, it is a real spoon ecu. ive been working on hondas for over 12 years and own a 10 second 100% street civic that i built top to bottom all by myself over 6 years ago (besides having the engine sleeved)..and yes its still running today, same everything. and i have been turboing hondas for 10 years now. im just saying you can take my word that the spoon ecu is real.

now can we get back to the misfiring issue?

[4GAccordH22]

So basically, you can guarantee that it is not an ECU issue even though you refuse to run the ECU that Honda designed specifically for this engine in it's stock form? You can get a JDM P13 on ebay for less than $200. Or you can try your local junkyards and see if you can find one locally. Also, fix the CEL, it sounds like it could be the EGR lift sensor inside the black box on the firewall. It may help fix your symptoms. It sounds to me like you may have more than one issue here. Take a systematic approach and try to fix one issue at a time, check if it lessened or changed your symptoms and go on from there. I can tell you now, there probably isn't an easy fix and it is going to take time. Especially since you don't know the history of the car and the swap. Maybe the previous owner had similar issues and masked them long enough to sell the car. Do you know who did the swap? Have you tried talking to them?

[deevergote]

i can understand that. the guy who started this thread is a noob, but as stated i am his mechanic and have taken over this thread and im far from a noobie lol. i will also probably make a few threads on other forums that i am on.

yes, like i said, it is a real spoon ecu. ive been working on hondas for over 12 years and own a 10 second 100% street civic that i built top to bottom all by myself over 6 years ago (besides having the engine sleeved)..and yes its still running today, same everything. and i have been turboing hondas for 10 years now. im just saying you can take my word that the spoon ecu is real.

now can we get back to the misfiring issue?

I missed that. I thought Mike just learned to communicate clearly.


The only issue I could possibly think of is the o2 sensor. Has that been replaced (with NGK/NTK or Denso only... Bosch sensors do not work on these engines.) I've had bogging issues due to a failing o2 sensor, and it did not always throw a code. When it did throw a code, it wasn't usually until i hit highway speeds, and then it threw code 41 (which went away the next time I turned the car on.) A proper o2 sensor replacement could be a worthwhile thing to try. If it doesn't help, at least a wear item has been replaced.

[mikey57]

So basically, you can guarantee that it is not an ECU issue even though you refuse to run the ECU that Honda designed specifically for this engine in it's stock form?

it is running the correct ecu. the changes spoon made to the ecu dont have ANYTHING to do with the 1-4k rpm misfire! the spoon ecu is made to be run on a stock jdm h22a...and like i said when he bought the car it was running perfect on the spoon ecu for a long time until this issue came up.

Also, fix the CEL, it sounds like it could be the EGR lift sensor inside the black box on the firewall. It may help fix your symptoms.

the lift sensor is on the egr itself. the solenoids are in the black box on the firewall..this car didnt even have the black box when he bought it and like i said it was running perfect then. so no i dont think the egr has anything to do with it. it wasnt even working when it was running good and people disable them all the time.

Take a systematic approach and try to fix one issue at a time, check if it lessened or changed your symptoms and go on from there. I can tell you now, there probably isn't an easy fix and it is going to take time. Especially since you don't know the history of the car and the swap. Maybe the previous owner had similar issues and masked them long enough to sell the car. Do you know who did the swap? Have you tried talking to them?

yup thats what ive been doing for hours on end.

ill have the owner of this h22 contact the previous owner....but i can tell you the previous owner is pretty shady.

[mikey57]

I missed that. I thought Mike just learned to communicate clearly.


The only issue I could possibly think of is the o2 sensor. Has that been replaced (with NGK/NTK or Denso only... Bosch sensors do not work on these engines.) I've had bogging issues due to a failing o2 sensor, and it did not always throw a code. When it did throw a code, it wasn't usually until i hit highway speeds, and then it threw code 41 (which went away the next time I turned the car on.) A proper o2 sensor replacement could be a worthwhile thing to try. If it doesn't help, at least a wear item has been replaced.

if it were the o2 sensor then why is it misfiring in open loop?

[deevergote]

Well, then... it wouldn't be the o2 sensor. I didn't see mention that it was occurring in open loop as well.

Have you checked the condition of the injectors? What injectors are being used?
How about the injector resistor box? I've only seen one instance where the resistor box failed, and I don't recall the results of that failure, but at this point you've already ruled out the most likely things.

[mikey57]

Well, then... it wouldn't be the o2 sensor. I didn't see mention that it was occurring in open loop as well.

Have you checked the condition of the injectors? What injectors are being used?
How about the injector resistor box? I've only seen one instance where the resistor box failed, and I don't recall the results of that failure, but at this point you've already ruled out the most likely things.

it has the h22 injectors and resistor box. not really sure how to check the resistor box..never had to. but lets say the resistor box is screwed up, wouldnt it be running funky all the time and not just between 1-4k rpms?

ill be checking the injectors and also replacing the fuel filter tomorrow...although i have never seen a clogged fuel filter on a honda since they do have a filter on the pump as well. but its just $20 and wouldnt hurt to try at this point.

[cincy90h22]

You said the plugs were replaced, What did the old ones look like, have you pulled Any of the new ones out, what do they look like? Is it running rich?

Also, today I replaced the motor in a crv, when I got it put back together it would idle fine, bit miss when revved (bleeding coolant) I'd just replaced plugs wires cap rotor also, so That wasn't the issue. After some investigation, I found the reluctor wheel for the cmp/ckp/tdc sensor was loose (no cel BTW). Replaced distributor, everything was fine.

Another scenario.. I had to stop suddenly one day, my unopened can of pop fell off my driver seat and hit my ecu cover . I started having issues with vtec engagement, bucking in and out, like I had a bad ground. For weeks I checked and cleaned every ground . Until one day, my car started running like complete shit! Would idle, but Rev stumbly and slow, dumping black smoke, fouling plugs, no cel. Took my Ecu out to put in my old p13, heard a rattle, my chip had came loose. Caused the Ecu to go into limp mode, firing all injectors at once, hence the rich plugs and black smoke. That's why I ask you what the new plugs look like.

Just a few things to look into, hope it helps.

[SOHC-FTW]

^^ This, just because it worked fine before doesn't mean it didn't malfunction i've seen chips fail not to mention numerous threads all across the web on the subject.

If the timing was check with a light and dead on, you have good compression and leak down numbers, no sticky injectors or shorts or leaks in the fuel system, did your regular maintenance/tune up, I would definitely try a stock ecu no matter how real you say the ecu is or how the car performed beforehand it's worth a shot.

[mikey57]

i just took the plugs out and they are normal looking. ill check out the distributor a little more.

he doesnt have the money for a $200 ecu...he has already gone overboard spending money on this car. just trying to get it running correctly right now so he can sell it.

[deevergote]

$200 ECU? A P13 sells for $40-$60 in most junkyards. My yard sells all ECUs for $15, though I've never found a P13. Sold my own for $50 to a member here.

I assume that the distributor wasn't installed incorrectly... it's keyed, so it'd be difficult, and you obviously know what you're doing... but I've seen it happen before. Even from knowledgeable people (the more you know, the more you can overlook assuming you didn't make that particular mistake.) I've had a highly experienced mechanic that owned his own shop install a thermostat backwards.

[cincy90h22]

Check all your vaccuum lines. Make sure you don't Have any leaks or split hoses. Spray intake gasket with Carb cleaner, I assume you know what an air leak sounds like.

[mikey57]

$200 ECU? A P13 sells for $40-$60 in most junkyards. My yard sells all ECUs for $15, though I've never found a P13. Sold my own for $50 to a member here.

I assume that the distributor wasn't installed incorrectly... it's keyed, so it'd be difficult, and you obviously know what you're doing... but I've seen it happen before. Even from knowledgeable people (the more you know, the more you can overlook assuming you didn't make that particular mistake.) I've had a highly experienced mechanic that owned his own shop install a thermostat backwards.

we are not fortunate enough to have hondas in junkyards here in missouri.

the distributor has never been taken off.