Rhythmic sound and feeling, and faint steering shakes.

[Bad_dude]

Hello every one,
I have a 90 Accord LX 4AT. This problem has been with the car a year after I bought it. But it comes and goes. Now I can really feel it and I need some help to isolate the problem. It's very difficult to describe the sound but it's more of a feel than hearing it. It's like a rhythmic, thumping kind of feel. It's like some thing is rubbing as the wheel is turning at slow speed. It is felt more at low speed less than 25 mph. Higher speed I don't feel it nor hear it. It's in the driver's front wheel. Some times when going slower than 25 mph, I can feel a faint light shake, barely, in the steering wheel. It does not occur when braking, only when the car is moving slow without braking. Here are the things that I have done:
1) I checked the brakes and the brake splash guard. All front pads are worn equally, the rotors move freely when not braking. No signs of brake issues or warped rotors. Check the rear brake shoes also. It sure brakes good after a cleaning. No fluid leaks and it was flush about 4 months ago.
Update: I paid closer attention yesterday and notice that it occurs going forward at less than 30 mph, without braking and cruising, without the foot on the gas pedal. It does not occur at turns. I cannot hear it at higher speed than 30. It does not occur in reverse.
Some one suggested a bad wheel hub or hub ring, what do you guys think? I thought the hub and bearing were like Sammy's twins as they are stuck together. So a bad hub would means a bad bearing.

2) Jack up each wheel, pulled the tire at the 12+6 and 9+3 and no play at all. Check all ball joints and tie rods, nothing seem loose and all boots in tact. No leak in the rack and all bushings are present and not missing. No clicking when making turns or U turns in either direction.

This occur since last week after they rotated and balanced my tires. I get it free as I bought the tires from them. I also rotated and balanced my tires about 3000 miles before this last time. The car drives smooth on the freeway at 65 mph and not shakes as a balance problem or any thing.
I am wondering if a bad tire could do this? I look real closely and nothing stuck or nail in the tire. No abnormalities in the tire. And it must be balance since they checked it last week right?
I also suspected a bad wheel bearing since I bought it, but wouldn't it make noise and give me other symptoms? If it was a wheel bearing, why wouldn't it make noise at high speed?
I have checked every thing and couldn't find any thing. I was just wondering any one ran into this problem and they got it fixed without experience the usual symptoms.
UPDATE: I have since rotated all of the tires full circle and the noise still there, so I don't think it's tires.
Thanks.

[Fleetw00d]

Could be tires. Still running steel wheels with relatively narrow, tall tires (195/75-80/14)? What kind of tires? What air pressure do you run in them? Raise each tire/wheel off the ground, then rotote it slowly and watch for out of roundness or for the tread wandering back and forth, or an area on the tread that bulges slightly compared to the rest of the tire. An out of round or distorted tire can be balanced on a machine, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will run smooth. Sometimes just dismounting an out of round tire and rotating on the wheel 180 degrees helps (trick we used when I worked in a tire store in high school).

Examples:
My family had a 74 Chevy wagon that when driven slowly down the street, the car visibly wobbled back and forth on the tires. Went through 7 tires in 20,000 miles (broken belts).

I also resurrected a 72 Cadillac that had been sitting for 14 years. The tires were terribly flat spotted (but still held air!). At low speeds it felt like they were square, but it would smooth out above 75 mph.

[Soufkackicustom]

Do you wheels have a center cap covering the lugs? They may of left a lug loose after rotating your tires and it's bouncing around in there

[Bad_dude]

Do you wheels have a center cap covering the lugs? They may of left a lug loose after rotating your tires and it's bouncing around in there

My tires do not have center cap. It's an LX so I have the full wheel cover holding on by 4 lug nuts. I have checked the torque on all tires to be 80. So no loose nut. I wish it was that simple.

Just an update. I took the car back to the tire place and they the inspected the tire much more carefully. The tire has no defect, it spin uniformly and no bulging. They rebalanced and no change in the balance. I asked them to rotate it to the back and the problem is of no change. So I ruled out the tire. Where to go next? I hate throwing part at it as I am unemployed right now, even if I am not, I don't like doing it.
I need to drive up in a few weeks to San Francisco and I would like to just make sure it is safe to go that far.
Thanks.

[Bad_dude]

I can't seem to get the sounds to happen when just rotating the tire on the jack. This is a mysterious problem.

[Bad_dude]

It's been a while but the noise is still there. I just would like to see if any more suggestions would come along.
What is the chance of an axle being bad and not clicking when turning in either direction? My passenger's axle was replaced about a year ago by the shop. The driver's side is where the noise is and the axle is still original I think. No boot tear or any thing.

Thanks.

[deevergote]

Does the sound and feeling increase as the car's speed increases?
How new are your brake rotors? A warped rotor could produce a vibration, though you'd definitely notice a shaking when braking, especially from higher speeds.

Have you inspected all your bushings? Torn bushings can cause a number of odd problems.

Usually any rhythmic vibration can be attributed to defective or improperly worn tires, or a bad alignment. Perhaps it'd be wise to take the car to a different shop for a second opinion.

[curtie94]

How about your sway bar links? Those can cause a clunk over bumps, Im just giving you an idea. How about cv shaft, ball joints don't have to be loose to be bad. They start with a squeak then they clunk then they get loose.

[Bad_dude]

This sound and feel is not consistent with any of the normal wear and tear. The noise does not correspond to braking so not a warped rotor. No usual symptoms, like clicking or vibration when on drive. The noise occurs when cruising with the foot off the pedal. As soon as I put the foot on the pedal, the noise is not there. I have rotate the tires around a few times and still at the same wheel. No play at the frontend at all.
The bushings though old are not broken or deteriorate that I can see. I think there's a bushing or bushings to go straight up front into behind the bumper, I don't know what that is called, but would that one cause this? I can't see those at all unless removing the bumper. Would an axle do that if it's dried out and need repacking?
I think this sound has been there since I bought the car 4 years ago and it never gotten worse or effect the car. Maybe I should just leave it.

Thanks.

[deevergote]

You really don't re-grease our axles. Once they start to go, it's best to simply replace them. If yours are old, it's worth replacing when you can, even if it doesn't fix the problem.

The bushings that you're referring to are your radius rod bushings. The ones that go into the front crossmember. I really don't know what the symptoms would be if they fail, but it's possible that they could cause your issue. I know a good traction bar setup makes those parts solid, which helps keep the wheels planted... so I'd assume that sloppy bushings would do the opposite... causing noise and vibration. I'm really only guessing, though.

How are your engine mounts?

[Bad_dude]

The front torque mount is replaced with inserts. The other 3, seems ok base on visual inspection. No major shake at idle or when driving. If one of them was bad, which one is most likely to cause this noise? The driver's side one?
Thanks.

[deevergote]

It could be any of them, really. All 3 are load-bearing. The rear is most likely to be damaged, especially if your front mount was torn.

[Bad_dude]

I got an auto. The 2 side ones I can deal with no problem. The rear one is the big pain. I have to remove the heater hose and other stuffs that I hate to deal with. The problem is my car park outside in a given space and my apt. complex has cats, dogs, and kids around. So any spill and stuffs is bad.

[FAK_LAF]

It really sounds like a wheel bearing to me. I know you jacked the car up and checked for play by rocking the wheel, but it is still possible hear a rythmic thumping before there is a noticeable amount of play at the onset of bearing failure.

[Bad_dude]

It really sounds like a wheel bearing to me. I know you jacked the car up and checked for play by rocking the wheel, but it is still possible hear a rythmic thumping before there is a noticeable amount of play at the onset of bearing failure.

I am thinking it's the bearing or the axle. But without play, it should be safe until definitive symptoms are showing up right? I am just going to drive until later. If the bearing goes bad, I think I just replace it with the set with the bearing and hub together from Ebay. Easier than trying to get the bearing off the hub. How's Ebay's bearing/hub? Any one used them?
Thanks.