how low can you go before needing a camber kit and what suspension combo is good?

[s.green]

[QUOTE=deevergote;2887882]
A lot of people say "I dropped mine on *****" and it rides fine!" (**** being stock shocks, cheap shocks, etc... anything mismatched.) So yeah, the ride isn't always terrible until they're totally blown. BUT, when you push the car to the limit, it won't react predictably with an improper setup. That means handling characteristics will be screwy, and your braking time may be drastically reduced. I always tell people to imagine that a small child chases a ball out into the street, requiring them to brake and swerve. Is a cheapie, poorly matched suspension setup going to keep them from hitting the kid? It's doubtful. QUOTE]

Good points but I wouldn't know a proper reaction from a bad one. I haven't been trained but I'm looking at taking some driving classes at the racetrack in Atlanta. I know that my Civic handles differently than my Accord and that quick movements of the wheel are different in each car. There should be like a CB7 handling class or something. That would be cool. I would love to learn more about the cars reactions and what is correct and incorrect.

[deevergote]

By "proper reaction", I don't mean racecar responses... I mean, you hit the brakes, and it stops when you expect it to stop. You turn the wheel, and it goes in the direction you expect it to go. With an improperly matched suspension (or worse, a damaged one... which is often what happens with a mismatch in a short time), those things might not be as you expect them.

With my example of a kid chasing a ball out in front of your car... The kid runs out from the right. You see him at the last second, and your response is to slam the brakes and cut the wheel left, away from him, right? I would hope so. However, if your suspension doesn't do what it's supposed to do, which is keep your wheels planted on the ground, your tires are going to hop around. With the rubber bouncing off the ground, the car won't stop OR turn in time.

Most people with any sense at all know that a blown shock makes the wheel bouncy. Most of us have experienced it at some time or another, either in a car we've driven, ridden in, or seen on the road. That, obviously would be a problem.
Many people don't understand that an extremely stiff suspension (like the "race" suspensions that the kids love to buy) won't respond to bumpy public roads as it should. The suspension components are designed for a racetrack, not a road with railroad tracks, potholes, ridges caused by tree roots pushing up into the asphalt...Too stiff, and the car is going to treat every bump like a little ramp, unloading the wheel for a split second. That could be fine, unless you're relying on that wheel to be properly loaded for turning or braking! During turning or braking, an unloaded wheel will make the car slide in that direction.
Even less frequently understood is the matching of spring rates to the shock's dampening and rebound abilities. If the spring compresses and bounces back very quickly, a mild shock (which would be ALL of the cheap ones) won't be able to keep up. It'd be like hitting a punching bag with no rhythm... it just ends up being a big floppy mess. When this happens... you guessed it... the car won't do what you expect it to do.

When I say "at the limits", I don't mean when you're racing around a track. That certainly applies, but how many of us actually race on a track? A lot of us race on the street (which is stupid... but it's a fact), and it applies there. It's even more important there, since there will potentially be innocent bystanders and personal property in the way.
However, what I really mean by "at the limit" is when you have to quickly slam on the brakes, or make a sudden turn to avoid danger. Those are the times you will need your suspension to respond properly... and if it's not put together correctly, those are precisely the times that it will fail to respond as expected.

[s.green]

Well, the only thing I did understand was "at the limits"...lol. Do they teach these things in mechanic classes? I should have been a mechanic instead of a musician/librarian. This is good info here and I appreciate it very much!! I'm trying to be all about safety and I do not play when it comes to wheels, axles, and blown struts. I'm a wee bit paranoid in that department. I don't even like driving our VW because I swear the suspension is messed up but I'm still not used to no powersteering. Thanks Deevs for teaching and thanks pengwin for asking this question.

[deevergote]

I'm a musician/artist/psychologist...

[pengwin]

Wow I thought I asked a simple question didn't expect all this. But glad I know now. Just had a friend put some crap Ebay coil overs on stock shocks which made out look good buy now I see how dangerous it can be. Thanks for all this info I need to tell all the"kids"around my town this stuff

[deevergote]

Spread the word, my friend!

The difference in price is so drastic between doing it cheap (unsafe) and doing it right (safe) that people that don't know any better are almost always going to go the unsafe route. You can technically lower your car for $50... or for free, if you want to heat or cut your springs (people do it... that's even worse!)

[danyuulcosta]

By "proper reaction", I don't mean racecar responses... I mean, you hit the brakes, and it stops when you expect it to stop. You turn the wheel, and it goes in the direction you expect it to go. With an improperly matched suspension (or worse, a damaged one... which is often what happens with a mismatch in a short time), those things might not be as you expect them.

With my example of a kid chasing a ball out in front of your car... The kid runs out from the right. You see him at the last second, and your response is to slam the brakes and cut the wheel left, away from him, right? I would hope so. However, if your suspension doesn't do what it's supposed to do, which is keep your wheels planted on the ground, your tires are going to hop around. With the rubber bouncing off the ground, the car won't stop OR turn in time.

Most people with any sense at all know that a blown shock makes the wheel bouncy. Most of us have experienced it at some time or another, either in a car we've driven, ridden in, or seen on the road. That, obviously would be a problem.
Many people don't understand that an extremely stiff suspension (like the "race" suspensions that the kids love to buy) won't respond to bumpy public roads as it should. The suspension components are designed for a racetrack, not a road with railroad tracks, potholes, ridges caused by tree roots pushing up into the asphalt...Too stiff, and the car is going to treat every bump like a little ramp, unloading the wheel for a split second. That could be fine, unless you're relying on that wheel to be properly loaded for turning or braking! During turning or braking, an unloaded wheel will make the car slide in that direction.
Even less frequently understood is the matching of spring rates to the shock's dampening and rebound abilities. If the spring compresses and bounces back very quickly, a mild shock (which would be ALL of the cheap ones) won't be able to keep up. It'd be like hitting a punching bag with no rhythm... it just ends up being a big floppy mess. When this happens... you guessed it... the car won't do what you expect it to do.

When I say "at the limits", I don't mean when you're racing around a track. That certainly applies, but how many of us actually race on a track? A lot of us race on the street (which is stupid... but it's a fact), and it applies there. It's even more important there, since there will potentially be innocent bystanders and personal property in the way.
However, what I really mean by "at the limit" is when you have to quickly slam on the brakes, or make a sudden turn to avoid danger. Those are the times you will need your suspension to respond properly... and if it's not put together correctly, those are precisely the times that it will fail to respond as expected.

Wow. This is exactly what i needed to read. i just recently got into an accident BECAUSE of my crappy suspension.

[deevergote]

Wow. This is exactly what i needed to read. i just recently got into an accident BECAUSE of my crappy suspension.

I'm sorry to hear it. At least you're around to tell about it! It's a shame that it had to happen to someone, but proof of what I'm saying only makes it more believable.

[pengwin]

Ok I'm some what confused. I'm looking at these str.t shocks on Ebay and it says struts and shocks kit and it has 6 different things in the package. I thought cb7 only have struts. Please show some light on the subject.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KONI-...item2c5f296198

[deevergote]

6 different things? I see 4 struts... 2 rears, and 2 fronts.

Wow, the price went up a bit.. and Neuspeed.com (who used to have them for $63 each) only seems to have fronts in stock, for $81 each.