Advanced Nitrous questions

[virtualbasil]

First here is my engine setup before I start "on the bottle"

f22a1 in a 1993 prelude S weekend driver no interior at all. Weekend driver for fun maybe some autocross in the future.

1. bisimoto valve springs and completely rebuilt head

2. bisimoto cam gear and 2.3 nitrous regrind on the camshaft

2. Bisimoto forged pistons 10:5:1 compression

3. NGK iridiums (2 stage colder)

4. nitrous dry or fogger kit (not sure which brand yet)

5. bisimoto heat shielding intake gasket on intake mani

6. Megan cat back without cat (and aftermarket header that came on the car unkown brand)

7. AEM CAI

8. a walbro
Questions

Will I need a standalone fuel management system with this?

Why scientifically do you HAVE to retard the ignition?

Will I lose power while I"m "off the bottle" if I have the igniton retarded?

I was told by a friend that has suppose ably built engines up on nitrous, he told me I will have to rebuild the engine every 3 months even If I'm easy on it, sounds like total BS to me but Lmk.

The nitrous FAQ says the difference between dry and fogger kits on hondas doesnt really help? has anyone tried them both and can give me a litte insight as to which is better?

I'm looking into getting the Bisimoto forged pistons ceramic coated through swain www.swaintech.com. But if I'm ordering the pistons to the stock bore will the coating make them to big?

10:5:1 or 11:1 ? can they both run on 91 octane?

How far can I bore out the block without messing up the stroke to bore ratio? and still b safe on nito?

bah I have so many questions this is my first engine build any help much appreciated!!!

[Straight Success]

I can't answer them all as I am planning to run nitrous, and I am still doing research. I'm curious to see some answers my self.

[virtualbasil]

ya I usally call bisimoto and talk to bisi but lately he has been very busy and his answer r short and you can tell he is in a rush.

[stretch JDM]

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=252

way too much you need to know. start here.

[Straight Success]

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=252

way too much you need to know. start here.

That is good reading. I read that about 7 times now. Great advice.

[virtualbasil]

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=252

way too much you need to know. start here.

yes I have read that it answers none of the above questions and you can never know enough

[Joey GT-R]

First off these are not "Advanced Questions" I've never run nitrous and I have all the answers; not that I'm bragging though.

IMHO why stop at 10.5? Why not go 12:1? Nitrous loves high compression; if it were me I'd take those extra ponies. The more power you have off the bottle, the more power you will have with the bottle. I would also run 93 octane. Try to map out all the gas stations in your area as not everyone has 93 some have 92, while the difference is marginal, it still helps.

The 2.4 is a turbo cam. The 2.3 is designed for nitrous. Bisimoto can further customize it for your build's needs as well.

You don't need a full standalone, but you will need some kind of tuning software such as Crome, Hondata, eC Tune, etc.

You retard ignition for Nitrous because you don't want two things to happen - A, you don't want to "strike down" on the crankshaft which is to say that when You're spraying nitrous it has more Air(oxidizer) and Fuel meaning a longer more powerful burn which could be bad if that burn pressure peaks as the piston reaches exact Top Dead Center(TDC) then, that force gets sent straight down through the crankshaft, in a linear force, instead of rotational. Since Nitrous lights faster, but burns longer due to more pressure it creates A TON of more heat which needs more fuel(rich) to cool it off. A more saturated mixture cools the engine and prevents incredibly nasty detonation


You can buy ignition retard kits from brands such as MSD that retard the ignition only when on the bottle, that way during regular street driving your ignition will be on the stock setting.

Your friend doesn't know what he's doing and/or is a terrible tuner. I wouldn't let him touch my radio if I were you for that matter. If it is built correctly and not cheaped out it will last. That's always been the rule.

Honestly if I was to ever spray an engine it would be direct port. IMHO it's the safest option when using nitrous as everything is supposed to be even. But if you're in between Dry and Wet I would go with Wet since it adds fuel. You didn't include a high flow fuel pump in your parts list, I would definitely invest in one.

Why would you use another company to coat Bisi's pistons when he does that himself? The coating option is right under the pistons themselves when you purchase. I suppose you could bore the block out to 86mm. But any further and I would suggest you sleeve.

Hope that helps you along....

[stretch JDM]

^ good advise joey , i have been spraying for several years . i run a dry kit . as stated above you great points .i did not feel up to typing all that up +1 for typing .great job .

[virtualbasil]

First off these are not "Advanced Questions" I've never run nitrous and I have all the answers; not that I'm bragging though.

IMHO why stop at 10.5? Why not go 12:1? Nitrous loves high compression; if it were me I'd take those extra ponies. The more power you have off the bottle, the more power you will have with the bottle. I would also run 93 octane. Try to map out all the gas stations in your area as not everyone has 93 some have 92, while the difference is marginal, it still helps.

The 2.4 is a turbo cam. The 2.3 is designed for nitrous. Bisimoto can further customize it for your build's needs as well.

You don't need a full standalone, but you will need some kind of tuning software such as Crome, Hondata, eC Tune, etc.

You retard ignition for Nitrous because you don't want two things to happen - A, you don't want to "strike down" on the crankshaft which is to say that when You're spraying nitrous it has more Air(oxidizer) and Fuel meaning a longer more powerful burn which could be bad if that burn pressure peaks as the piston reaches exact Top Dead Center(TDC) then, that force gets sent straight down through the crankshaft, in a linear force, instead of rotational. Since Nitrous lights faster, but burns longer due to more pressure it creates A TON of more heat which needs more fuel(rich) to cool it off. A more saturated mixture cools the engine and prevents incredibly nasty detonation


You can buy ignition retard kits from brands such as MSD that retard the ignition only when on the bottle, that way during regular street driving your ignition will be on the stock setting.

Your friend doesn't know what he's doing and/or is a terrible tuner. I wouldn't let him touch my radio if I were you for that matter. If it is built correctly and not cheaped out it will last. That's always been the rule.

Honestly if I was to ever spray an engine it would be direct port. IMHO it's the safest option when using nitrous as everything is supposed to be even. But if you're in between Dry and Wet I would go with Wet since it adds fuel. You didn't include a high flow fuel pump in your parts list, I would definitely invest in one.

Why would you use another company to coat Bisi's pistons when he does that himself? The coating option is right under the pistons themselves when you purchase. I suppose you could bore the block out to 86mm. But any further and I would suggest you sleeve.

Hope that helps you along....

So hondata s300 system doesnt have custom ignition tables?

And will all nitrous systems plug into a MSD ignition?

(ya I ment to say 2.3 camshaft and forgot the walbro)

I'm looking on bisimoto.com and I dont see a coating process option?

And direct port would be a later upgrade along with a bisimoto intake mani, and the S300 system

So o o o to start with should I go with dry or fogger?

[Joey GT-R]

Bisimoto Pistons and Coatings

S300 does have the tables you speak of. If that's what you want, go for it.

There is no "Fogger Kit". Those are just parts referring to the jetting of the shot. Dry, Wet, and Direct Port are you types.

Here is my personal endorsement, not necessarily what you have to get, but if I was doing what you were doing, this is what I would do. ZEX "Blackout" Wet Kit

[virtualbasil]

yes Zex is good but NOS kits jus plain look COOL with their blue bottles haha.

I was looking at this kit but it doesnt have the Blue Bottle

http://www.amazon.com/NOS-07006NOS-S.../dp/B000VVVOYY

what say you?

[copbait]

Im not trying to rob this post but this maybe helpful info to the op.

i actually, just bout the same zex wet kit you just mentioned. i have never run nitrous and been reading up on info about spraying the a-6 i have. it looks like the info ive came across has shown that I would be safe on a 50-60 hit with premium gas and colder plugs, but will the longevity of the original trans hold up with this extra power??(over time). i will be running a wipe open throttle switch and i am running a brand new clutch with less than 4k on it. or will a H series trans be a tad tougher being that it is bulit to hold the 200 hp on the h22? My issue would be spraying 2nd gear and lighting the tires up. im sure the first couple bottles would hold fine but lets say i ran ten bottles a year?

[virtualbasil]

You could go bawls to the wallz and put a B series trans on it!!! $2799 just for the kit !!!

[Joey GT-R]

You could go bawls to the wallz and put a B series trans on it!!! $2799 just for the kit !!!

Not required and nor should he want it in the first place. And furthermore there are names and brands who make transmissions equal to the down payment on small houses. $2800 for a built transmission IMO is still considered "reasonable".

Im not trying to rob this post but this maybe helpful info to the op.

i actually, just bout the same zex wet kit you just mentioned. i have never run nitrous and been reading up on info about spraying the a-6 i have. it looks like the info ive came across has shown that I would be safe on a 50-60 hit with premium gas and colder plugs, but will the longevity of the original trans hold up with this extra power??(over time). i will be running a wipe open throttle switch and i am running a brand new clutch with less than 4k on it. or will a H series trans be a tad tougher being that it is bulit to hold the 200 hp on the h22? My issue would be spraying 2nd gear and lighting the tires up. im sure the first couple bottles would hold fine but lets say i ran ten bottles a year?

Your transmission will be fine. Don't miss any shifts or grind the gears as always of course. Your only concern is your clutch. I would go for a Stage 2 of whatever your preferred brand is. I have an Exedy right now myself. If you plan to go serious with an all out nitrous build then later down the line you might want to invest in a Stage 3; a lighter flywheel would be nice as well.

[Ghetto_CB7]

N20

Since people are putting out endorsements.

Instead of dealing with the msd ignition retarding dohickey.

I highly recommend running neptune instead of hondata s300. Neptune has many features that are adaptable to N20 setups. The most notable one is the automatic map switching.

You can have two completely separate maps, one for on bottle, and one for off. you can program the switch to occur when you hit an arming switch or whenever you want. That includes spraying / switching by gear meaning if you don't want n20 until 2nd then you could run the normal tune through first and have the program automatically switch maps and spray n20 in 2nd and beyond.

There has also been talk(it has not happened yet) of the software supporting n20 by rpm and gear using a pwm solenoid just like a boost controller.

This theoretically could mean running variable n20 levels.

Anyway, regardless of what options you go with I do not recommend ever running on the bottle without a tune!

Good luck with the build.