Strange Shifting when NOT in "S" mode

[SH4D0W]

Ok, so I recently (day before yesterday, to be exact) was given the amazing gift of a 1990 LX. I'm really excited to get into this car like I did with my last Honda, which you can read all about if you are on www.3geez.com and/or Click Here

Anyway, so I just got this CB7, and I can tell already I'm going to like it. But. When its NOT in the "S" mode (ie: the small button underneath the thumb button on the gearshift of the automatic LX) it has a tendency to rev too high it seems, just before it shifts.

So, the car is due for a L/O/F, and I'm going to be swapping some BBS rims onto it to replace the 4 stealies and 3 hubcaps it has currently, and I'll be doing that this weekend.

I want to have it looked over by someone who knows more then I. But, as I just got it, and am not familier with the cb7 vs the 3rd-gen, I thought this might be the right place to start.

[cloudasc]

Welcome to cb7tuner.com!

When your not in sport mode, what rpms does it shift at for each gear, and how much throttle are you giving it when it shifts at those rpms?

Whats the mileage & when was the transmission fluid last flushed, and changed?

[SH4D0W]

the RPM's varry with how much gas I'm giving it, where it shifts. But just before it shifts, it jumps about 500 rps + - and then shifts hard.

The car has just shy of 300k, and I will be having the tranny flushed probably on monday. I will have them put Lucas Transmission Fix in after it's flushed, along with the fluid. I always have had good success with Lucas products in my other vehicles.

I would hope that even if the Lucas doesn't FIX the problem, it definatly would not hurt

[cloudasc]

Don't put the lucas stabilizer in your transmission. Also don't use any other brand of transmission fluid other then Honda ATF or GM Synchromesh, our auto tranny's are tempermental when it comes to fluids. A flush would be a good idea. When you drain the transmission fluid or have it drained, it should come out unburnt. If it looks black, and nasty and burnt change (drain & fill) your transmission fluid at shorter intervals until the fluid you drain comes out with a red tint, not black. I change my fluid at least every 15k miles and use Honda ATF only.

We need to know when your transmission is shifting to tell you whether its normal or not... so

At a constant 20-30% Throttle, what rpm/speed does it shift from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th.

At a constant 50% Throttle, what rpm/speed does it shift from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th.

At full throttle (pedal to the metal, or WOT) what rpm/speed does it shift from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th. (3rd to 4th at full throttle is optional as you will be close to 90mph when it shifts)

[mercyboy]

well all i can say sport give it a nice high rev...compare to a normal....all i can say it just give it a sporty performance

[deevergote]

Mercyboy, why must you insist upon posting nonsense in every thread you open?


I think I remember seeing you on 3geez... welcome! (I have a 3G myself, though I'll probably end up selling it to a friend after I swap in my new motor and trans...)


As for your problem... that's odd that it revs higher OUT of Sport mode... sport mode is supposed to raise the shift point at partial throttle. Do you know if a previous owner tampered with the TCU or wiring at all?
Also, is your S light on all the time, or flashing? That would indicate an error code.

Other than that, cloudsc is definitely pointing you in the right direction.

[SH4D0W]

Thank you for the advise, direction, and welcome. I will be conducting further tests tomarrow at my buddys shop. I will get pix / vids and try to get the best data I can for you. The "S" is solid green when it is engaged.

I think I have seen you on 3geez as well. I miss my 3G, but I <3 my new CB7!
Good Old-school Honda FTW.

Weekend plans:
Oil change + Lucas oil stuff
Tranny flush w Honda ATF
Air filter
Inspect map sensor, plugs, wires, etc
Seafoam
Degreaser for engine
Swap tires w audi
New wipers
Wash & Wax & Polish

I doubt it has been tampered with. It is bone stock, and the previous owner was a 38 yr old lady that kept it garaged. It's really a beautiful car, and I can't wait to get some pix in the AM!

[deevergote]

Don't use the Lucas stuff. Additives are no good, and can only cause long term damage.

Don't flush the tranny. Change the fluid with Honda ATF, but don't do an actual flush. Flushing the trans often reveals problems that are otherwise masked by gunk... so unless you want to rebuild, it's best to let the gunk do what it's doing!

Be careful with Seafoam. If you put it in your crankcase or run it through your brake booster line, change your oil TWICE afterward. That stuff can destroy your engine if left in there (though to argue that statement... I ran my car for 3000 miles with Seafoam in the oil and it's still ok... but I got lucky!) If you just put it in the gas tank, then you don't need to worry.

If you don't know the age of your plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, etc... it's best to replace them. Also, at this age, the ignition coil and igniter often fail. With hot weather, the main relay may go on you as well. If you have starting troubles, those are the first things to look at.

Your oxygen sensor may also need to be replaced sometime soon. Do so with NGK/NTK or Denso ONLY. Don't use a Bosch sensor.

[SH4D0W]

vids : hopefully they help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_pbVLtawck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_BxcoNz3S0


-=-

After running the Seafoam, and changing the oil, it is running very smooth. The shifting is still a bit harsh, with a small surge just before it shifts, but I'm not overly concerned with it. I will change the transmission fluid next paycheck, using Honda ATF.


While the plugs & wires, cap & rotor still all look ok, I'm going to replace them next check as well. Better safe then sorry, right?

So, of the weekend plans, lets see how we did.

Weekend plans:
Oil change + Lucas oil stuff - done
Tranny flush w Honda ATF - next check
Air filter - done
Inspect map sensor, plugs, wires, etc - inspected plugs and wires - look ok for now
Seafoam - done
Degreaser for engine - doesn't really need it / been done recently
Swap tires w audi - won't fit :-(
New wipers - installed
Wash & Wax & Polish - done

So, not a bad weekend

Hope the vids help!

[CB7Man]

Can never emphasis enough in every automatic tranny post to:
Buy a Magnetic drain plug.
Buy a tranny cooler.

These (if installed at the factory) would make these trannys last almost indefinatly, no more burnt ATF fluid, clutch material stays at plug. Trust me something that needs to be done to get the most out of your tranny.

[deevergote]

Automatic models are equipped with a tranny cooler from the factory. It is integrated into the radiator. However, an additional one would only help.

[CB7Man]

Automatic models are equipped with a tranny cooler from the factory. It is integrated into the radiator. However, an additional one would only help.

I dont (and all the tranny shops around me) consider the OEM radiator "transmission cooler" adequate.
The shop I talk to mostly, installs an external transmission cooler with any Honda service, or they wont work on it. Unless ofcourse it already has one.

[JDMDriver]

With Honda OEM is the best and only way to go in my opinion.

Honda has one of the best engineers in the business and a deviation from their recommendation I highly discourage.

As mentioned above my opinion is:

Dont use additives in the Transmission (or engine or powersteer or brake fluid at all!)
Use only Honda OEM ATF (same with power steer fluid and brake fluid)

In addition:

Check you have correct tranny computer for your car.
Check you clean the filter in the tranny when its serviced.

[JDMDriver]

When Sports mode is engaged the "S4" should light up constantly. The shift point should be noticed to be a little higher and held a little longer when throttle is released.

If the operation is opposite (which it sounds like it is) then the wirings may have been tampered and not correct (hence it holds higher revs out of "Sports mode").

Check that the sports button is pressed "In" and that the "S4" light is on.
If the sports button is pressed but the "S4" light is not on then likely the wiring has been tampered and you are actually running in sports mode.

[SH4D0W]

With Honda OEM is the best and only way to go in my opinion.

Honda has one of the best engineers in the business and a deviation from their recommendation I highly discourage.

As mentioned above my opinion is:

Dont use additives in the Transmission (or engine or powersteer or brake fluid at all!)
Use only Honda OEM ATF (same with power steer fluid and brake fluid)

In addition:

Check you have correct tranny computer for your car.
Check you clean the filter in the tranny when its serviced.

How would I check the Tranny Computer?
When under the car, where would I find / how would Iget to the tranny filter?

When Sports mode is engaged the "S4" should light up constantly. The shift point should be noticed to be a little higher and held a little longer when throttle is released.

If the operation is opposite (which it sounds like it is) then the wirings may have been tampered and not correct (hence it holds higher revs out of "Sports mode").

Check that the sports button is pressed "In" and that the "S4" light is on.
If the sports button is pressed but the "S4" light is not on then likely the wiring has been tampered and you are actually running in sports mode.

When I have the Sports button pressed, the S4 light is on solid. When the button is out, the S4 light is off.

Can never emphasis enough in every automatic tranny post to:
Buy a Magnetic drain plug.
Buy a tranny cooler.

These (if installed at the factory) would make these trannys last almost indefinatly, no more burnt ATF fluid, clutch material stays at plug. Trust me something that needs to be done to get the most out of your tranny.

What is the benifit of having a magnetic drain plug?

Thank you for your assistance =)