EX Refuses to Start

[James Matteu]

The Short and Skinny

The car only runs if the key is held in the Start (III) position with the Gas Pedal to the floor; i.e. Wide Open Throttle (WOT). If this is done, the car runs, but the Starter grinds the entire time; which is to be expected. I am going to test the Main Relay and Fuel Pump, but would like to know more about the idle control system and how to test it. I think there may be something wrong with the Internal Ignition Coil, but that doesn’t seem to jive with the car still running with the key held in III.

The Long Story

Some of you may remember that I have a cousin in college with a 1990 Honda Accord EX Sedan 4-spd Automatic. He bought it with the idea that if anything went wrong with the car, I could fix it. Yup, this is the same CB that I am fabricating a harness for, thead. Well, not long after buying the car I finally got it into my driveway. I found an improperly installed Alternator with a damaged tension bolt (squealing belt), and valves that were way out of spec (bad taping from the valves). I fixed those two noises only to discover the ticking time bomb that was a dull rattle at 3000 RPMs. We didn’t have time to tear into it, so I asked that he take it easy and bring it back after school let out for summer. He claims to have been on the interstate (not takin’ it easy in my book) when the engine failed, thread. I dropped in a “refreshed” F22A1. I swapped over the camshaft, exhaust, and distributor from the F22A4 to the F22A1 to make the F22A1 an F22A4 equivalent. After getting the car back on the road, with cold A/C to boot, it has run flawlessly until recently. Wednesday, September 16, he was driving home and the Tachometer and Speedometer went dead for a moment, and then came back to life. Sunday, September 27, the car would not start. He would turn the key to the Start (III) position and hear the Starter running, but the motor would not fire. He held the gas to the floor and got it to turn on with the key in the Start (III) position, but the car would immediately shut off if he let the key go (still WOT), allowing it to return to the ON (II) position. He said that if he holds the key in the Start (III) position and holds the Gas Pedal at WOT, the engine will run, albeit with the Starter grinding. He called me at this point to report all that I have presented here today.

I plan to run a diagnostic on each system that is involved in the ignition and idle process, testing them in their starting order. As such, I am bringing my: probe light, extra PGM-Fi Main Relay, extra Fuel Pump, Multimeter, Fuel Pressure Gauge, and plenty of fuses. I can only verify the resistance and output signal from the Internal Ignition Coil, but don’t really understand how the coil could fail unless the key is held in the III position. I haven’t worked out what to test next; I need to study the idle control system further.

Any ideas will be appreciated.

[cloudasc]

I would double check/clean all the grounds if you haven't already (especially the thermostat ground).

[James Matteu]

Grounds, check. I will bring some emory cloth to clean them with.

[kelton]

If it only runs when you hold the key then check your ignition.

[SOOicideWGN]

had the same problem. swapped out ignition switch,which are everywhere at junk yards... and never had prob again

[psychogat3]

yea the ignition switch would be what i check first.

[James Matteu]

Problem Fixed!

I turned the key to the ON position (II) and could not hear the Fuel Pump running nor could I hear the PGM-Fi Main Relay click twice. So I removed the Banjo bolt from the Engine Bay Fuel Filter and installed my 0-100 psi Fuel Gauge. Again, I turned the key to the ON position (II) and my cousin says that he saw 30 psi (WTF?). I still could not hear the Fuel Pump, so I turned the key to Start position (III) and got two clicks at the PGM-Fi Main Relay, the Starter Motor began its sequence, and the Fuel Gauge showed 38 psi. As before, the car started and ran with the key in position (III) but shuts off when allowed to return to ON position (II). Note: normal function is for the PGM-Fi Main Relay to click twice when in the ON position (II) and remain energized in Start (III). I checked all three relevent Fuses, all were fine. So I removed the PGM-Fi Main Relay and substituted a known working unit. I stuck my head under the dash and turned the key to the ON position (II) and heard nothing. I gently nudged the key to the Start position (III) and heard two very solid clicks right before the engine turned over and started up. Again, the engine shut off when the key was allowed to return to ON position (II).

Just then, I noticed that with the key in the Start position (II), the door chime failed to function; but with the key in (0) or (I) the chime worked fine. With the key in the ON position (II), I wiggled the key and got the chime to come on; this confirmed my hunch that the Combination Switch was failing. So I removed the Combination Switch and informed my cousin that this part was his problem. I took a small flat head screw driver and separated the white and black plastic halves. Inside I found where the silver had been rubbed away over time and where the poor contacts had sparked and burnt some of the plastic; which left carbon deposited on the contacts. I took 150 grit sand paper and cleaned all the contacts inside the Combination Switch; then reassembled it. I reinstalled the Combination Switch and then was able to start the car right up. I let him know that this is likely a very temporary fix and it may leave him stranded. We agreed to let it ride until the car starts to act up again; he knows to look for the sudden failure of things like the Blower, Speedometer, Tachometer, etc. At that point, we will order a new part, use the sandpaper again, or try to rebuild the Combination Switch by re-electroplating the silver contacts with fresh silver.

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