h22 or h23 head swap on a f22 block

[RyanD]

Okay, so let's say you can and the G22 is $2000 and the H22A is $2500 based on my price breakdown....why not stretch only a few hundred more for a better product?


And a few years to put together a project you can supposedly do yourself?

like i said before i dont have a shop or a cheery picker or anything like that. im just planning

so an h22 would just be better all around? what about that paired with an f22 manual tranny?

[Jarrett]

If you're going to spend anywhere in that neighborhood then why don't you just buy an H23A VTEC and call it a day. Let's take price out of it. There is absolutely no performance positive aspect that these Hondabond-headswaps have over the H23A VTEC.

While I still will likely never agree with the execution of such a build, I understand the philosophy behind it. You want a DOHC VTEC valve cover under the hood with minimal cost involved. When you start excusing yourself by saying you would build it up, the logic goes out the window. The problems that a lot of people have with these hybrids have nothing to do with them being weak at all. Quite the opposite. The H22A is a great head in its own regard. The F22A bottom end is a strong bottom end also(nevermind the pistons). Combining the two doesn't create any weaker of a product. It just creates all the other issues you likely found out about when you searched prompting you to give some sort of disclaimer to your proposal.

[Joey GT-R]

The H22 engines are designed to make 200bhp and rev to almost 8000rpm. Depending on the variant, you will make roughly about 170-180whp.

Take an F22, that makes 130bhp and is designed to rev to roughly 6500rpm. At the wheels, you will have maybe 110-115whp.


So, you take the head of an engine that is designed to rev high and put it on a block that is not designed to rev as high as the head not to mention without the compression that the former engine also uses to make power. So how do you expect to make anywhere close to 200bhp with parts that aren't designed for each other? You may make about 140-160whp.


F22 transmissions are designed for economy and not performance, the gears are longer, and third gets drops out of VTEC when shifting, losing power. An H22 transmission is designed to keep you in the powerband of the engine while racing. Catering to the F22s powerband with that transmission will cost you races, or ET times; whichever you prefer.

[RyanD]

im just looking to go fast when i need/want to. im not a racing person

[deevergote]

I read the initial revival post, and that's it. I already know what's been said, as the same responses are given over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... often by me (as I have in this thread already, and as I'm about to do AGAIN, because people always seem to think they have a novel idea, and that they might get a different answer than everyone else..)

The H head on an F block will NEVER be as reliable as a full H engine, unless extensive modifications are done. If those modifications are done, then the cost will easily exceed that of a full H engine... even if you do most of the work yourself. The necessary machining work will likely be something you cannot do. The custom pistons will not be cheap. Neither will the rods. Nor the bearings. Or all the seals and gaskets necessary.
This is not a matter of $1200 H22A vs. $250 H22A head. Nor is it a matter of $1200 H22A vs. $250 head, $100 head gasket, $400 pistons.


If you want an H, buy an H. If you can't afford an H, start saving. I did my swap while I was a poor college student. I even paid a shop to install it for me, because I didn't have CB7tuner to help me (every forum back in early 2003 told me it was far too difficult to do it myself...)


Headswaps are generally a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing. A good way to gauge your own knowledge is to look at your recent post history. If "can I do a headswap?", or a variation of such, is included in that list... you do not know what you're doing. If you know how to pull off a headswap to have any measure of reliability, you know enough that you don't have to ask about step #1.
Furthermore, if you actually rely on your car for daily transportation, a headswap is far too much of a risk... especially for someone who has never done one. It's like a stock-block turbo setup. It's not a good idea, and should only be done on a car that you can afford to blow up... or rather, it should not be done at all.

[RyanD]

ok then that settles it! H22 it is!

[toycar]

ok then that settles it! H22 it is!

Consider buying an entire bb4 prelude (1992-1996)for the swap.


You can find them in running condition for $2,000, give or take. ive seen non running complete cars from $800, all the way up to great runners for $2800-3500.


Then, you have the entire car to source your parts from, as well as anything else you might want from the car.

Then sell whats left for scrap at the junkyard and get 300 bux back. Maybe even part some shit out at a prelude forum first.


Thats how I'd do an h22 swap. I dunno why anyone is paying so much from an importer, just buy a damn prelude and gut it. Brakes/calipers/rotors are a nice upgrade too.

Seats are nice, some people swap the gauge cluster and a couple have even pulled off the dash swap. The wheels may or may not be worth swapping too.


My thoughts...

[Jarrett]

Then you have an engine with considerably more miles on it than a Japanese import and you've dismantled a car much cooler than an old Accord to get an engine.

Start to finish, nearly everyone who's done an H22A swap has been able to pull it off for less than $2500. In that method you're also having to pull two engines, instead of one. Then you have the hassle of trailering a car to the junkyard. I'd just buy the engine.

[toycar]

Then you have an engine with considerably more miles on it than a Japanese import and you've dismantled a car much cooler than an old Accord to get an engine.

Start to finish, nearly everyone who's done an H22A swap has been able to pull it off for less than $2500. In that method you're also having to pull two engines, instead of one. Then you have the hassle of trailering a car to the junkyard. I'd just buy the engine.

Yeah but anyone buying an imported engine is doing a full gasket set anyways. So the only thing not getting touched on what should be standard practice is the rings.

If the car runs good from square one, I think its a pretty viable option.

Most junkyards around here will come get the car from you, thats why I said $300. If you take it to them you get 385-450.

Having to pull two engines isn't that big of a deal, and atleast with a prelude you have the option of parting it out.

plus, it provides some of the shit you would have to buy otherwise, and offers some free upgrades.

Such as brakes/calipers/rotors/wheels/gauges/seats (easy $700 if you bought seperate)


I dunno, there are plenty of ways of doing it I suppose. I personally would just buy a prelude and gut it to recoupe some lost money.


Say you dont use the brakes/rotors/calipers/hubs etc. You could sell them as a complete set for what, 250-300 bux?

Wheels, if they are desireable and in good condition would yield another what, $250-$350, maybe even $400 depending on buyer and condition.


Add in scrap metal money, you have recouped almost a grand of your h22 swap costs right there.

Gauge cluster, another 50-75 bux. Seats/dash etc.. $150-$200



Plus you wouldn't exactly HAVE to buy another ecu and you could test drive and verify its all running correctly prior to buying.

I for sure would just buy a prelude as a donor if I was considering the swap.

[deevergote]

A JDM engine with low mileage has likely been sitting on a shelf for the past decade. Honestly, it's probably better to have an engine with 170,000 miles on it that has been well maintained and used regularly.

The full Prelude to swap from isn't a bad idea, though it requires a bit more effort (dismantling the Prelude, instead of just wrenching on the Accord), and most quality engine importers will sell you every thing you need for the swap... but still, there are pros and cons to each way of doing it.
The BB4's gauge cluster cannot be used. It's the BB6 that people use. The BB4 had a very odd dash. Really cool, but definitely Prelude-only! Agreed, the brakes can be a decent upgrade.
A BB6 would be a good donor. Seats, cluster, 5 lug, H22A... just requires an OBD2-OBD1 conversion.

[toycar]

Im sure if I held out I could get an h22 prelude, in running condition for $2000 or less and make half of that back selling parts and scrapping what I didn't want.


Thats how I would do it.

[deevergote]

It's definitely possible. Hell, find one that got rear-ended, or had a ball joint snap. Or find one that "needs a fuel pump"... and replace the main relay! You could always drop the F22A into it and resell it as a running car. If you get the car cheap enough, you could potentially break even, maybe even profit... even after spending all the necessary money on seals, gaskets, etc...

It's all about convenience vs. effort. Personally, I'm not a fan of extra wrenching... so I'm perfectly fine with paying a little extra to get my engine on a pallet. I'll pay for the convenience, whereas you'd put forth the effort to save more money. Your way is more logical... but I'm lazy.