h22 or h23 head swap on a f22 block

[KeeleDesign]

Yeah, the F22A isn't necessarily better... it's just cheaper.

And honestly, I'd rather blow up an F22A than an H22A... if you're going to go cheap for a turbo project, use a motor that's inexpensive to replace!

this is a definitive amount of knowledge that does make since, as to one of the reasons you would boost a
f22 vs a h22.

but as his ideas went, he would have an expensive H22 head and all his time to make the swap work.... put on a peuny f22 block... and if it blows he has still lost a bunch of money, so this idea of a reason would not accomidate his former claim.

Not to mention that he would have to buy a turbo manifold for the h22 to make it turbo ready.

i think if one is going to turbo a f22.. a frankenstien is not the way to go.. i think that a proper rebuild with heavier duty parts is in store if it's a reliable platform that is desired.

[HaulAss247]

if hes gonna go turbo on a stock block, the hybrid is cheaper, easier to get back running if it blows etc. Reguardless if he bought a h22 and went turbo on that without building it, its gonna blow eventually, if he goes turbo on the hybrid its gonna blow eventually. really doesn't matter which, if he really wants it to last, he might as well build it, pretty much costed the same amount for parts and labor to build either bottom end, difference is he can pick up a f22, h23, f23 block cheaper than he can a h22. And if he went on stock block and lets say collapsed the ringlands, spun a bearing or whatever, how much more do you think he wull pay for a h22 replacement block then he will for a h23, f22, f23 block.

None of us are made of money, and who knows how long he wants to wait to get this car done, so why keep pressuring him into building if he isn't planning on investing that much time and money.

the g23 vtec seems like alot of work but its not at all, like i said just small things that are critical

good luck on whatever you decide to do man

[deevergote]

To go turbo on a stock block, the full F22A is the best choice overall. It's the least expensive to do initially, the least expensive to replace if and when it blows, and there's no building involved... There really is no gain to be had from adding a DOHC head of any kind. For the price of an H head and the stuff necessary to make it work, you could get a mild port and polish job done on the F22A head and have plenty of flow for a turbo motor. The DSM manifold is compatible with the F22A head as well (H23 also... but not H22), which seriously cuts down on the cost. Granted, it's not the best choice, but it works... if you're boosting a stock block, the "best choice" isn't really something to be considered!

The only reason the F22A block is "better" than the H blocks is that it doesn't have FRM sleeves. FRM sleeves are only a bad thing when you want to run forged pistons. If you're running forged pistons, then the whole stock block thing goes out the window. Just run forged pistons in the F22A with the money you would've spent on the H head swap.

[cole_edinger]

why do you consider a motor that makes half the power a better platform for turbo?

the only thing you can benifit from is that you can use forged psitons... and thats it. everything else on the h22 or h23 block is stronger and designed better. (except for the sleeves) but even the FRM sleeves have help up to
400whp.
With the proper tuning their is little to worry about, and without correct tuning your little f22 block will also explode.

yes the f22 is capable of being turboed... it's just your argument is not definitive.

i think its a better motor for turbo because if i stick 8:1 comp pistons in it i won't even need to worry about sleeving because the f22 is an iron block and i can make good power if i just do that. as for everything else being stronger i'm gonna buy new rods and the f22 cranks are strong as hell. i'm not planning on just turboing a stock motor i said i wanna build the hell out of it. and don't say the the h22 can make more power cuz Bisi is pushin 900 whp on an n/a f22. i'd like to see an n/a h22 make that much power.

[cole_edinger]

Yeah, the F22A isn't necessarily better... it's just cheaper.

And honestly, I'd rather blow up an F22A than an H22A... if you're going to go cheap for a turbo project, use a motor that's inexpensive to replace!

exactly if i blow it its no big deal f22 blocks are a dime a dozen.

[cole_edinger]

lol so i'm confused about what hes trying to do now? H22 headswap isn't that hard. Like it was said its little things you need to do but they are critical....
To do that head swap on your f22 you need/need to do:
1.h22 complete head(intake manifold, injectors, throttle body, vtec sol etc etc)
2.exhaust manifold and y-pipe, or just headers and make a new exhaust, whichever
3. h22 ecu
4. can be a used h22 water pump
5. h22 crankshaft timing gear
6. h22 head gasket, echaust gasket
7. h22 timing belt
8. h22 water cross over pipe. (good luck finding that new )<<there was 1 in the U.S when i was working at acura and i needed it. Modded the t-stat housing instead
9. h22 distributor
OK off the top thats what i remember.
The 2 last oil returns on the drivers side(front one and back) need to be sealed
The water cross over pipe needs to be cut. Water pump side needs to be f series, t-stat side needs to be h series, connect the 2 with hose or weld the pipe together.
Remove the orifice from the f22 block right above the oil pressure sensor. (on deck of the block, you'll see it when you take the f head off.)
All i can remember right now, But if your still interested in it this will get you started, if you haven't lost motivation now

Deev should i just make a thread in the swap forum for this, so you don't get aggrivated everytime a new member asks about this just let me know and i'll pull my pics and get to typing

sounds good to me cuz i'd love a proper diy on this since i can't seem to find one. and i doubt i'm gonna lose motivation.

[cole_edinger]

To go turbo on a stock block, the full F22A is the best choice overall. It's the least expensive to do initially, the least expensive to replace if and when it blows, and there's no building involved... There really is no gain to be had from adding a DOHC head of any kind. For the price of an H head and the stuff necessary to make it work, you could get a mild port and polish job done on the F22A head and have plenty of flow for a turbo motor. The DSM manifold is compatible with the F22A head as well (H23 also... but not H22), which seriously cuts down on the cost. Granted, it's not the best choice, but it works... if you're boosting a stock block, the "best choice" isn't really something to be considered!

The only reason the F22A block is "better" than the H blocks is that it doesn't have FRM sleeves. FRM sleeves are only a bad thing when you want to run forged pistons. If you're running forged pistons, then the whole stock block thing goes out the window. Just run forged pistons in the F22A with the money you would've spent on the H head swap.

the only reason i wanna put an h22 head on it is cuz not a lot of people have done it and i wanna have something different. not to mention i wanna be able to hear that VTAK crack

[deevergote]

Originality, or at least semi-originality, is the only reason to do a headswap. It will decrease reliability (people will argue this... but I've seen far too many fail to be convinced otherwise) The F22 bottom end isn't meant to rev as high as the H22 head needs, and the lower comoression will make it sluggish. When you add turbo to the mix, you're really negating any benefit from the H22 head anyway.

That being said, one of the most powerful turbo CB7s on this board is an H22 head on an F22 block. lodollar92lx's car

Additionally, when boosting an f22 block, the sleeves aren't the first thing that would go. The pistons are brittle... and now very old.

[KeeleDesign]

i think its a better motor for turbo because if i stick 8:1 comp pistons in it i won't even need to worry about sleeving because the f22 is an iron block and i can make good power if i just do that. as for everything else being stronger i'm gonna buy new rods and the f22 cranks are strong as hell. i'm not planning on just turboing a stock motor i said i wanna build the hell out of it. and don't say the the h22 can make more power cuz Bisi is pushin 900 whp on an n/a f22. i'd like to see an n/a h22 make that much power.

well if you do all that, then why would you want a H22 head? you do realize the Vtec will only create more variables and maybe problems when your trying to get your motor tuned...
Also to rev to the speed of most H22's you are most likely going to throw a bearing unless your one heck of a engine builder.

I am not positive but i am pretty sure Bisi isn't making 900 whp of a F22 if he is.... he really fell short on the Castrol challenge..

And yes a H22 could be built to the exzact same amount of power. To say otherwise isn't true.

I still haven't found your reasoning to be definitive proof of a better setup than if you were to keep the stock f22 head.

save your money as mentioned, buy new pistons, a block guard. and have some headwork done.. and you'll be ready to have a fairly dependable car.

I am not telling you what you should do.. but i have still yet to see any good knowledge from you as to why you want to do this for a turbo application.

as for your crankshaft... it's built ok... it's not bulletproof.

and for a build like this you would need to have it lightened and micropolished and balanced for dependability.

If you do that,, and buy new rods and pistons with wrist pins installed.... you would have already spent more money than i was under the impression you were wanting to... not to mention if you were to have it sleeved.

i was under the impression we were talking about the best bang for the buck...

either way when your going to be turboed the last thing you want is to have is way to many variables. I'd suggest you turbo the built F22 and when you become familiar with the whole 1,000 things that can go wrong list.. and the non stop tuning and mantaince.

then deciide if you want to do the head swap.. that way you will be ready for the 1500 things that can go wrong, along with more tuning and more maintance, due to higher reving.

[cole_edinger]

well if you do all that, then why would you want a H22 head? you do realize the Vtec will only create more variables and maybe problems when your trying to get your motor tuned...
Also to rev to the speed of most H22's you are most likely going to throw a bearing unless your one heck of a engine builder.

I am not positive but i am pretty sure Bisi isn't making 900 whp of a F22 if he is.... he really fell short on the Castrol challenge..

And yes a H22 could be built to the exzact same amount of power. To say otherwise isn't true.

I still haven't found your reasoning to be definitive proof of a better setup than if you were to keep the stock f22 head.

save your money as mentioned, buy new pistons, a block guard. and have some headwork done.. and you'll be ready to have a fairly dependable car.

I am not telling you what you should do.. but i have still yet to see any good knowledge from you as to why you want to do this for a turbo application.

as for your crankshaft... it's built ok... it's not bulletproof.

and for a build like this you would need to have it lightened and micropolished and balanced for dependability.

If you do that,, and buy new rods and pistons with wrist pins installed.... you would have already spent more money than i was under the impression you were wanting to... not to mention if you were to have it sleeved.

i was under the impression we were talking about the best bang for the buck...

either way when your going to be turboed the last thing you want is to have is way to many variables. I'd suggest you turbo the built F22 and when you become familiar with the whole 1,000 things that can go wrong list.. and the non stop tuning and mantaince.

then deciide if you want to do the head swap.. that way you will be ready for the 1500 things that can go wrong, along with more tuning and more maintance, due to higher reving.

ok sorry i was a little tired last night when i said that.. he's pushin more like 500 hp. but anyways.. my whole reason behind doing this is to be able to build a strong reliable motor that very few people have, not to mention keep myself busy. i'm not looking to just slap on a turbo kit and have a fast car, i'm up for the challenges that may arise from building this motor, like i said i wanna keep myself busy.

i'm not in any way saying that the h22 head is necessarily better than the f22 head. i know that the f22 head is one of the most underrated in the honda world because it has excellent flowing capabilities. and like i said i want a challenge.

i'm aware that i won't be able to rev as high as an h22, but if i build it right i can probably hit 7,000 safely. as for the bang for the buck portion- the way i've figured it i can build this motor (before turbo) for about $1,000-$1,500. as opposed to buying a stock h22 for more than that.

[deevergote]

Why not just boost the F22A and avoid the cost of the H22 head altogether?

The F22A head actually has the ability to outflow the H22A head. (and this is coming from someone that hasn't owned an F22A since before this site began...)

[HaulAss247]

this is gonna be a never ending discussion if this keeps going like this hahaha. So i'll end it, its your car homie, so just pick whatever setup you want and comfortable with, cuz at the end of the day its your car and your money, so with that being said GOOD LUCK WITH WHATEVER YOU DECIDE And keep us posted with some pics if you do stick around on the site

[deevergote]

Good point, Ben. I'll drop it!

[cole_edinger]

Why not just boost the F22A and avoid the cost of the H22 head altogether?

The F22A head actually has the ability to outflow the H22A head. (and this is coming from someone that hasn't owned an F22A since before this site began...)

ya he does have a good point haha but like i said i want a challenge and i just wanna try something different. i know the f22 head flows hella good i had a p&p on my old f22 and it was a good performer for the short amount of time i had it.. but ya i just wanna experiment a little and do something different. not necessarily have the fastest or most powerful engine possible but something somewhat original and different.

[cole_edinger]

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...dge/index.html