Vortex Generators

[Scubasteve_dan]

Has anyone ever heard of vortex generators? They are used primarily on aircraft to improve airflow over the wings and aid in the effectiveness of the controls, but they also aid in aerodynamics by reducing drag. They create little vortices on the surface which prevents separation of airflow.
Here's a link to some more info
Some people are using them on cars to aid in aerodynamics. And some guys even use them inside their intake tubes to swirl the air, I guess that improves fuel economy and power just a little bit. I'm gonna take a closer look at some of the ones at school and try to fabricate some for my car, I'll test them out and if I see a noticable improvement in economy I will post a DIY of sorts.

Tell me what you guys think of the idea.

[accord2nr81]

is this like the "TORNADO" that use to be on infomerrcials latenight tv?

[Scubasteve_dan]

Yeah, the tornado was just for the intake. My thought was to make some little vanes out of sheet aluminum and then rivet them to the inside of my CAI tube. And also make a bunch of them to stick on the very top of the rear window, I'd color match them with spray paint and then use mounting tape to make them stick. What do you think of that idea?

[BootlegCB7]

if anything goes wrong in your cai, u will have a piece of aluminum stock somewhere in your engine.

[Losiracer2]

how does it improve airflow inside the intake? b/c it eventually hits the TB plate, then the bottom sect. of the plenum w/ its 8 holes then has to be routed through the runners and then finally into the combustion chamber.
But my friends EVO 9 has those Vortex Generators on top of the rear of the roof. So I'm thinking it hits those first and then flows over the rear wing for increased air flow or something.

[cb7stum3]

no offense, it will look cheap (look at the evo) and rice will be a commonly used term when you're around.


the increase is not worth it. use your time towards DIY black lights. yay

[deevergote]

Such things would work effectively (intake or body) if they could be properly set up. Unless you have a wind tunnel, and a tool to test the flow of the intake, you couldn't do that. The idea is sound, but the execution of it would be difficult. It could potentially make things worse.

[nighthawk]

Such things would work effectively (intake or body) if they could be properly set up. Unless you have a wind tunnel, and a tool to test the flow of the intake, you couldn't do that. The idea is sound, but the execution of it would be difficult. It could potentially make things worse.

exactly. you'll never be able to correctly engineer this in order for them to work correctly.

[Scubasteve_dan]

I think I'll try the back window vortex generators just for the heck of it. But your probably right about the intake tube thing, might just make things worse. I'll post pics when I get around to it.

[deevergote]

Anything on the body probably won't be noticeable unless you're on a track, and experienced enough to feel the difference. It probably won't hurt, though. I'm always supportive of new ideas!

[drummersteve7]

vortex gen's

aircraft do not use use these for airflow the main reason they have them is for fuel dumpage.

Most vortex generators are right next to the fuel dump valve so when you dump fuel it doesnt get all over the side of the plane. Yes it does create an airflow but this product has minimal effect on lift or anything of that sort.
Naturally burnellis principle takes care of that.

wow i never seen wikipedia know so little about what an object actually does. Lift is created by the wing seperating the air flow which has to travel faster on top of the wing and shorter on the bottom to meet up with each other after the airfoil has passed. The wing is not a control surface, so Im a lil hazey on their explanation. maybe I just read it wrong!

I dont think this application would have much affect on cars for swirling the intake due to the fact that you want direct air going in with minimal passageway. This would interrupt that. Correct me if I am wrong but your just delaying the entance time into the throttle body.

My roomate has a tornado. Its a waste of money. Just something to make noise and screw up later.

[SwiftCB7]

Such things would work effectively (intake or body) if they could be properly set up. Unless you have a wind tunnel, and a tool to test the flow of the intake, you couldn't do that. The idea is sound, but the execution of it would be difficult. It could potentially make things worse.

this man knows what hes talking about lol he will be ur sensei!!!!

[blizzard335]

we have these pseudo carbon fibre generic 'vortex generator fins' that fit most cars here, around 40~60 bucks a piece.

AFAIK, only the Evo IX had them.

[owequitit]

I think I'll try the back window vortex generators just for the heck of it. But your probably right about the intake tube thing, might just make things worse. I'll post pics when I get around to it.

Without a wind tunnel, you are 100% wasting your time.

[owequitit]

aircraft do not use use these for airflow the main reason they have them is for fuel dumpage.

Most vortex generators are right next to the fuel dump valve so when you dump fuel it doesnt get all over the side of the plane. Yes it does create an airflow but this product has minimal effect on lift or anything of that sort.
Naturally burnellis principle takes care of that.

wow i never seen wikipedia know so little about what an object actually does. Lift is created by the wing seperating the air flow which has to travel faster on top of the wing and shorter on the bottom to meet up with each other after the airfoil has passed. The wing is not a control surface, so Im a lil hazey on their explanation. maybe I just read it wrong!

I dont think this application would have much affect on cars for swirling the intake due to the fact that you want direct air going in with minimal passageway. This would interrupt that. Correct me if I am wrong but your just delaying the entance time into the throttle body.

My roomate has a tornado. Its a waste of money. Just something to make noise and screw up later.

This is ABSOLUTELY 100% patently false.

Vortex generators are used to engergize and manage the boundary layer over an airfoil. It can be used for several different purposes, depending on what the aerodynamicists are trying to accomplish, but they generally create more energetic and efficient airflow.

Also, I will attempt to explain this, but I don't know if you will understand or not, because the above quoted explanation of lift is really a VERY small part of what actually makes a wing fly.

This will be a much better source to get you started.

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/airplane.htm

Basically, as air travels over the top of the wing, which is curved, it accelerates. Since air velocity above the wing, and below the wing are different, and since a velocity change also creates a pressure change, we get a lower pressure above the wing (faster velocity), and higher pressure below the wing( lower velocity). This is how a carburetor works. Air speeds up through the venturi, causing a lower pressure, and sucking the fuel out through the jet.

This pressure differential helps to create a series of events that basically result in air circulation. Since the air circulating off of the wing ends up with a downward and backward motion, the equal and opposite reaction (dictated by Newton's 3rd law of motion, which states "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction") is upward and foward lift, thus the airplane flies.

There is a LOT more too it than that, but there are many factors that contribute to lift, drag, and aero efficiency that are well beyond my ability to explain them. People spend entire lifetimes learning about this field.

You aren't going to walk outside with cardboard and scissors and create an aerodynamic improvement just because. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.