N/A Type S

[BLKWLF]

Hi guys. Like some of you have read from my earlier posts im getting a type s engine for my cb7. Now the question is how much power could i get if i did the engine N/A? And how would i go about it?

[customchord]

Fully build and sleeve the block. Look at some of the peoples builds in th performance tech section.

[deevergote]

Don't waste your money on a Type S if you're going to remove all of the Type S parts.

[BLKWLF]

No offence deever but i gotta say im kind of getting sick of people telling me that im wasting my money instead of trying to help me out. Its the decision i've made cause i want my cb7 to be one of kind here in australia. Alot of other people would tell you that your wasting your money on such an old car but you do it cause you love it. Is'nt this what we're about here, for the love of it?

[deevergote]

Yes, for the love of it. But what makes a Type S is the cams, valvesprings, pistons, rods, and ECU. You will be replacing ALL of that. I don't mean to offend... but you're spending the money on a Type S motor, and then replacing everything that makes it cost more than a regular H22A. You can do the exact same thing with a regular H22A.

I own this site, believe me... I understand the love of these cars. I don't understand wasting money.




Now, to help you out... how much power can you get? What are your goals? 2point6 pulled off about 275whp, streetable, with a built H22A. It pulled his CB7 down the quarter mile at 12.7 at about 250whp. He was using an F22A crank and increased the bore for a total displacement of 2.44L. He had the head modified, and was running Web "stage 1" cam regrinds at the time of his 12.7 pass.

[BLKWLF]

No offence taken. What im going for is a liitle bit extreme. In kw terms 250kw at the wheels. I dont plan to replace the things that dont need to be replaced for instance from what i've read the cams are already like stage 2, just the ones that do in order to make that goal. I do realise myself that in some ways it is a waste of money but when i think about how this car could turn out, i just cant help but feel that its worth it. I've gone to other forums before this one for help, but none have helped me more than you guys here. And i just know that with help of all of you guys here i could make one hell of a car. And if you guys sell here CB7Tuner stickers i'de be more than happy to stick it on my rear window to show my appreciation for all your help.

[Kurobei]

For $3800-$4800ish you would be spending for 220HP, u can get a regular H22a longblock and have a semi built race motor for the amount the redtop costs alone. For 4k you can have a nice stroked 2.3-2.4 block that will eat a Euro-R for breakfast!

It's true it does comes with more power than a standard h22a right from honda, but what Deev and alot of other people are trying to say is "If it ain't broke don't fix it" The redtop is pretty much "maxed out" almost for a comfortable daily driver. To go beyond-beyond it's factory rating would only prove pointless if you are buying it for a starting point.

It's true you can build upon that motor to improve it a little (ITR owners do it all the time... new cams,cam gear etc. etc.) But they don't have a choice because thats what came with their car. To go extreme like sleeving,changing to even higher than 11.0.1 compression pistons etc. will set you back behind the game when you can start with a regular H22 and get a better than honda port and polish job, sleeved block, pistons etc. for the price of the Euro-R/Type-S.

[BLKWLF]

Fair enough. But with 220whp that its already got couldn't i get even more if from an n/a build(leaving the cost aside for a moment)?

[trah]

nope you won't gain much more then a regular h22. type s is practical the same motor design excluding the (cams, port&polish, higher compression pistons (it's only .4 more then a JDM h22), intake, exhaust basically (50.8mm to 57mm), TB (60-62mm), and the ATTS tranny but you can't use that. you can scratch out exhaust since it might be cut or and/or the intake that is if they include it in the shipment (cost for the type s intake is like $200/300 I forgot).

with 220 out of the box with the type s you would probably have around 180-200whp
with 200/190 from a regular h22 160 - 180 whp

Even if you mod it you won't make more then a regular h22 it would be almost the same. practically pointless if your going to mod the type s motor.
but if you leave it stock there would be a 10 whp difference. Its the same platform!!!!!

[blizzard335]

Type S like in RSX engine?

NO

Type S as in the BB6/BB8 H22a-S or the equivalent H22a-R in the CL1

BLKWLF mate, if ya plan on 250kw (around 330hp), that would be a MASSIVE push for the block itself, but plausible. 2point6, like Deev said, put down 270++whp. Factor in the tranny loss, that is around 320hp! Wicked!

Extremely wild cams, fully built block, unique valvetrain, crank, rods, bearings, exhaust, intake, engine management

Perhaps pushing it up to 10k rpms to get that much power. I forgot how much power Spoon got from its H22a, but they had to rev the baby to heaven.

Yeah, from what I see, and following 2point6's path, stroking it is a step in that direction, and making the engine rev high, very high (assuming youre not gonna daily drive it)

If a fully built 2L NA touring car engine can get up to 260PS, im sure the 2.2L can attain a similar specific output, perhaps even more.

Good luck man!

[BLKWLF]

Thanks blizzard.

[blizzard335]

Thanks blizzard.

anytime mate.

go thru 2point6's MR thread to get a picture of what is needed to be done

[BLKWLF]

Damn from reading 2point6's thread thats hell of alot work on that engine. Hell to tell you guys the truth i'de be happy with even 190-200kw. The engine has already 160kw stock so it shouldn't be that hard to get to 200kw. Should it?

[deevergote]

http://www.americanmachinist.com/Cal...rseToKilo.aspx

^ for conversion purposes, so people can participate intelligently in the conversation (we don't need people assuming 200kw is 200hp!)


Anyway, 200kw is about what 2point6 was pushing with his motor... about 268hp. He was just a tad over that (10hp more, perhaps). That is the most powerful streetable NA H22 I know of. If you've read the thread, you know as much as I do about his specs.

Now, at about 185kw, 2point6 told me he was getting about 28mpg. That was a VERY streetable engine at that point! He went pretty race with it afterwards, so I don't know exactly how streetable it was by the time it blew up (debris being sucked into the motor... not due to mechanical failure)

250kw might be doable. To the wheels, It'll be a stretch, and very impressive if you pull it off. To the crank, it's not THAT much more than 2point6 was doing, so I could definitely see that happening. It'll definitely take some money, creativity, and knowledge... certainly not a simple bolt-on deal! You don't seem like someone that plans on an easy journey, though...





As for my statements about the Type S... If you want to make 250kw, EVERY part that makes it a Type S will be replaced. The intake manifold will be replaced with a custom unit, or ITBs. The exhaust manifold will be replaced with a very high quality header (if Bisimoto has a race model by that time, it would be a good choice). The cams would be replaced by something MUCH crazier (the Type S cams are equivalent to a "stage 1" by most makers). The head, which I believe has a little more refining done than the standard H22 (a stock "port and polish") will be thoroughly reworked... combustion chambers re-shaped, ports widened, everything polished. The valvetrain will come out for lighter, stronger parts. The sleeves will be replaced with a stronger material with a larger bore. The rods and pistons will come out for forged goodies in the proper size. The crank will even come out if you plan on following 2point6's lead and stroking it. The ECU will be replaced by a chipped/tuned P28, or better yet, a full standalone system.


By the time you're done, you'll find that you've spent all that extra money on a Type S H22 just to remove the parts you paid extra for. That 220hp is because of those parts. It's not a starting point, since they're all coming out. The Type S is only better than the standard H22 until you remove the parts that make the difference. Going by US prices, the Type S is double the cost of the standard H22. That's an extra $2000+ that you can work with! That'll cover some MAJOR stuff, like the headwork/valvetrain or the majority of the block buildup.

Also, the Type S transmission is an ATTS unit, I believe... which means it's not really usable in our cars. I'm sure it can be done, but it would require some significant alterations, for little significant gain. That means you'd be using a standard H22 transmission (the LSD units are good, but you'd be better off getting a stronger aftermarket LSD for that kind of power)

[BLKWLF]

So is there any other way of getting it to 190kw without going n/a. Like bolt on stuff? And will i be better off using my current auto tranny on the engine rarher than installing the type s one?