Hating the tuner world right now....

[Cb7Legend2017]

Seriously like tf 600 for a piston made out of metal and 800 for connecting rod. Tf seriously. Just cause someone took a 50 dollar block of metal. Put it in a machine. And boom 1500 dollars later a shaped price of metal.... ftw

[Corweena]

If it was that easy, you'd see tons of people make their own.

But they aren't. Because there is SIGNIFICANT R&D that goes into a piston.

[Raf99]

You gotta pay to play. Sounds like you don't like paying.

[sonikaccord]

Welcome to the tuner world. Good thing you only have 4 cylinders.

If you have an issue with the pricing, then find alternate means to accomplish your goals. Your going to either pay for someone else's research or your own.

[Grumpys93]

Seriously like tf 600 for a piston made out of metal and 800 for connecting rod. Tf seriously. Just cause someone took a 50 dollar block of metal. Put it in a machine. And boom 1500 dollars later a shaped price of metal.... ftw

If it was only that easy.....I'd be a rich mofo. And if you look at the cost of our items compared to a hemi or even a k-series you would see we don't have it that bad when it comes to price.

[deevergote]

You can get cheap internals. They just won't last.

[LadyG]

You really only have two choices. (Edit: this is assuming you are wanting a "magazine worthy" car, and or a "track car" the usually end goals for spending that kinda money on internals)

1. You really, really, learn what you're doing. Heavy research. You clearly know what you want your outcome to be.
You do everything right the first time because you put the prep work in.
You build as you can afford your parts, with an eye to the eventual perfection payoff. You will know how to maintain all of it. It's slow. It's hard.
This is the cheapest way to do it. It's how I do it.

2. You go to someone who knows what they are doing. You pay what he asks. You only need to know what you want the end product to be, and furnish the appropriate parts or money for parts, to your builder. You will not be able to fix anything that breaks. You will have a baller car, and will have kept your hands clean.
I know a lot of people who have builds like this. My hubby is a builder. We appreciate them, because it's not cheap to have a car built for you.

If the thought of spending $600 on an internal part is outrageous, you should evealuate your end goal. Why do you need it? Why are you building this engine? If you wanna spend $600 on hp there are a lot of ways to do that.

[deevergote]

You really only have two choices.

1. You really, really, learn what you're doing. Heavy research. You clearly know what you want your outcome to be.
You do everything right the first time because you put the prep work in.
You build as you can afford your parts, with an eye to the eventual perfection payoff. You will know how to maintain all of it. It's slow. It's hard.
This is the cheapest way to do it. It's how I do it.

2. You go to someone who knows what they are doing. You pay what he asks. You only need to know what you want the end product to be, and furnish the appropriate parts or money for parts, to your builder. You will not be able to fix anything that breaks. You will have a baller car, and will have kept your hands clean.
I know a lot of people who have builds like this. My hubby is a builder. We appreciate them, because it's not cheap to have a car built for you.

If the thought of spending $600 on an internal part is outrageous, you should evealuate your end goal. Why do you need it? Why are you building this engine? If you wanna spend $600 on hp there are a lot of ways to do that.

This.


Determining your goals, figuring out exactly what you need, and knowing exactly WHY you need it is important. I would suggest that even if you take your car to someone else to do the actual work.

It also helps keep you focused ONLY on what you need to accomplish your goals. I've seen many projects, my own included at times, derailed by shiny distractions. "An engine build will cost $3500? That's ridiculous!"... and then I go and spend $800 on wheels, $500 on headlights, $700 on paint, $1000 on suspension, and $500 on a new stereo. There's $3500 spent, and not a penny of it went toward the engine build. Now, if I still want an engine build, I'll be $7000 in the hole rather than $3500! Focus.

If you must cut corners, be sure you have a detailed OBJECTIVE reason for doing so. In other words, don't just look for people to support and justify your decisions. Look for the harshest criticism, and only take a shortcut if you can genuinely defend it against such criticism. If you can't, you either need to learn more, or accept that your idea is a bad one and resign yourself to spending more than you had hoped.

If you go to a pro (which could very often be the cheaper way of doing things in the long run), do enough research that you can accurately assess their abilities before and during the project. I made the mistake of trusting pros for my H22 swap. It cost me double their initial quote, I had to learn how to do it anyway so I could teach them what to do, and the end result was terribly halfassed. Not all pros are created equal. Some (like LadyG's guy) are definitely worth what they charge (and then some.) Others, like my guys, are as good as throwing money away... and you'll end up redoing a ton of stuff if you want it right (that is IF they don't do something stupid that destroys your engine before that happens!)

Learn. Focus. Pay what it takes. Cut corners only when you fully understand the potential consequences. Anything else is going to end up costing far more than expected, and the result will be underwhelming, if not downright disappointing.

[LadyG]

Determining your goals, figuring out exactly what you need, and knowing exactly WHY you need it is important. I would suggest that even if you take your car to someone else to do the actual work.

If you must cut corners, be sure you have a detailed OBJECTIVE reason for doing so. In other words, don't just look for people to support and justify your decisions.

If you go to a pro (which could very often be the cheaper way of doing things in the long run), do enough research that you can accurately assess their abilities before and during the project.

Learn. Focus. Pay what it takes. Cut corners only when you fully understand the potential consequences. Anything else is going to end up costing far more than expected, and the result will be underwhelming, if not downright disappointing.

These paragraphs sum up what is actually wrong with a lot of "what the kids are doing".

I am not trying to be conceited here, but I have access to a lot of people and resources, because of what my hubby does. I get to see a lot of "magazine" and "feature" cars.

They are built for a reason.

Hubby J swapped an integra coupe for the sole purpose of the owner being able to custom vinyl wrap all the things and take it to shows as advertising.
It had a purpose.
Was it worth spending 8-9k? That is in the eye of the owner.

The other thing kids seem to trip up on is realizing that custom work is custom. It is expensive and time intensive. Stuff isn't just sitting on shelves, and it's damn sure not plug and play!
The amount of harrassment hubby received because people couldn't be bothered to read the order instructions, Harassment over the cost of this or that. Flaming online about anything. It gave my hubby ulcers. It wasn't worth it for us in the long run.

So, another custom honda guy closed his doors. Because cheap ass punk kids in the Honda scene drove him out.

Sorry if this is rant-y. I might still be a little sandy over that experience.

[sonikaccord]

Whew...there's a bit of bitterness in that post.

I completely understand though. A lot of the new kids want to do things like the big boys, by copying build logs, with no end goals in mind and a budget that might as well be non-existent. And with these forums, it is quite easy to see years of work condensed into only a few pages or threads. I'm sure that has a big impact on how fast these kids think the projects can be done.

Personally, I don't care much for the "tuner scene" anymore. Everything has been done before, minus that three rotor Lambo swap that's going on. Turbo, swap, N/A, blah, blah. I just want to play in the science and math parts now.

[deevergote]

These paragraphs sum up what is actually wrong with a lot of "what the kids are doing".

I am not trying to be conceited here, but I have access to a lot of people and resources, because of what my hubby does. I get to see a lot of "magazine" and "feature" cars.

They are built for a reason.

Hubby J swapped an integra coupe for the sole purpose of the owner being able to custom vinyl wrap all the things and take it to shows as advertising.
It had a purpose.
Was it worth spending 8-9k? That is in the eye of the owner.

The other thing kids seem to trip up on is realizing that custom work is custom. It is expensive and time intensive. Stuff isn't just sitting on shelves, and it's damn sure not plug and play!
The amount of harrassment hubby received because people couldn't be bothered to read the order instructions, Harassment over the cost of this or that. Flaming online about anything. It gave my hubby ulcers. It wasn't worth it for us in the long run.

So, another custom honda guy closed his doors. Because cheap ass punk kids in the Honda scene drove him out.

Sorry if this is rant-y. I might still be a little sandy over that experience.

Damn, Chris closed up shop? That's sad. I've seen his work. That's a definite loss


I don't feel the "scene" much either. Honestly, the only "scene" I genuinely care for is CB7tuner, because we have a totally different vibe. When people are harsh on here, it's because they actually care, and don't want to see someone hurt themselves or their car. The support is real. Nobody does things for attention. They do things for themselves, or to help their fellow enthusiasts. That's a scene that I'm proud of. It was a HUGE shock to see the Accord "scene", even the CB7 "scene" on Facebook a few years ago. The level of immaturity and rudeness was off the charts. It made me narrow my focus quite a bit.
At this point, I haven't had a CB7 in a year and a half. I haven't had a running CB7 in nearly a decade. This community is what matters most to me. More than my car ever did (though I did love that car.) This "scene" is all I ever need.

Ok, let's try to get back on track. We've taken this WAY off topic since the OP's last post (and I'm probably the most guilty of it. )

[Father Time]

OP-

You may get mad at prices, but think of it this way (One of the first responses I read on this site when I joined.)

Now you can only pick 2-
Fast
Cheap
Reliable

So which one are you willing to sacrifice to get to your goal?

[h22sparkle]

you cant have your cake and eat it too unless your rich. It seems to me like your paying top dollar for parts. Quality parts aren't cheap but if you learn your way around building motors by yourself without having to pay anyone and get enough customers to the point to where your not paying as much because of discounts and working on cars that money comes in way quicker. Or having your own business or atleast a job that pays really well. Its all what you did with it and how you spend your money wisely.

You have to play the game smarter and not spend as much foolishly. Take your time and do the research. Get with part distributors learn whose paying what and go by that. Once your done it'll all pay off. Just make sure its not a doomed from the start car or a money pit because you didn't do it right. Or worse someone else's fubar project that's the worst. Last thing I hate is someone else's hackjob

[CyborgGT]

I've been collecting parts for my H22 build since I pulled it out of the Accord and got rid of the chassis in September/October of 2012. With my frankly low budget, between "life" stuff and my inability to resist modifying a different daily driver that I bought for the meantime, that's how long I've been at it. I've been keeping running totals, and what I've found to be accurate estimates for what I've still yet to do. Many thousands that I can never hope to see again if I were to ever sell the car.

I just priced out what I'd consider a cheap but solid all-rounder:

- My DIY H22-swap (low-mileage JDM long block from HMotorsonline.com) was I think about $2500 after it was driving reliably
- there are a couple pairs of pretty nice wheels with good tires on my local CL right now for $400 and $600 - the latter is a set of absolutely MINT Integra Type Rs, by the way!
- a quality pairing of dampers and springs can be had for under $800
- everyone wants at least a cat-back to sound good - about $550?

$4,450... that doesn't include basic car maintenance, but it's not horrible considering all you get!


Now, going back to my "real" build. By the time I'm done collecting parts for the engine, then getting the block and head machined (block needs re-sleeve, unfortunately - Wiseco pistons and Eagle rods, TOGETHER, are costing me $800, so you're looking at some serious gear to get your prices), then getting a new Accord to put it in, then taking the car in for a dyno tune, I'll have spent up to $15,000; the exact total dependent on how much the car is going to cost me. It's almost depressing to think about such a high number for a car that's not worth more than $2k, but I see this as a car I'm keeping around forever, and with the time I'm taking I'm not making myself suffer, so it's worth it to me.

[deevergote]

One good thing is that if you spend $15,000-$20,000 on a well-sorted, well-built car that makes impressive power (by today's standards), is reliable, and suits your needs (be it a weekend car, a daily driver, or a show/race/event car) then it's quite a good deal.
You'll NEVER get your $15,000-$20,000 back when you sell, but if you build it right, you may very well have a better car than anything you'd be able to get for $15,000-$20,000 otherwise (new or lightly used.)

I've come to see building a car much like travel. It's an experience. Any money you put into it is lost, but the enjoyment, knowledge, and enrichment you gain from it is more valuable than money. If you truly love building and driving cars, then putting money into a "worthless old car" is well worth it, IMO.