My brother just hit my mom in the face.

[MikeW]

"Dear Diary, my teen angst has a body count..."

Kevin, that sucks. I know how you feel. Wasnt my brother but a step-dad. It happened and my adrenaline started pumping and i wanted to jump on him and beat on him and just let out all my anger on him. Disabled or not, your parents are the leaders of the house. What he did was un-called for, but like Deev said, he's probably having alot of conflicts, inside and out. Remember when you were that age?

Hopefully this conflicts resolves itself peacefully. GL man.

[C91BLX7]

Epic beard man says...

[cb7pr]

Hey , I just read the title and first post...enough for me to say this;

Its a bad omen to do such a thing, at least thats what my parents taught me growing up, and it their theory has proven right based on experience within my own family. My sister basically smacked my mothers face with a plate of food, and almost went to a fist fight, all while we were at dinner. Ever since that, my sister has had a terrible life, all because of bad choices, stupid decisions; never really grew up because she thinks she is better than anyone.

All I can say, parents are to be respected, regardless. If he doesnt learn now, well...g/l to him.

[owequitit]

Hey , I just read the title and first post...enough for me to say this;

Its a bad omen to do such a thing, at least thats what my parents taught me growing up, and it their theory has proven right based on experience within my own family. My sister basically smacked my mothers face with a plate of food, and almost went to a fist fight, all while we were at dinner. Ever since that, my sister has had a terrible life, all because of bad choices, stupid decisions; never really grew up because she thinks she is better than anyone.

All I can say, parents are to be respected, regardless. If he doesnt learn now, well...g/l to him.

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Let's not actually TEACH our kids how to make good choices and control their behavior so that they can see the errors of their ways... Instead, let's just let them do what they want, and hope they magically stumble across good decision making skills on their own.

[JaberCB7]

BOOTCAMP, talking sometimes help but his hormones like dev said are groing, my younger brother was like that and we let it go unanswer, now he 18 got 3 kids acting stupid as he pleases and im ONE SPARK AWAY FROM UNLEASHING DOOMS DAY ON HIS ASS BUT IM HOLDING IT OFF.

[deevergote]

Where do you disagree, Scott? I didn't say his behavior was tolerable at any time. It shouldn't be tolerated at all. I said that he is irrational, explaining that he doesn't need a reason to go off... teenagers are often irrational when it comes to strong emotions. It doesn't need to be tolerated. He needs to learn self control.

However, the family needs to settle in a proper heirarchy, meaning the parents need to be in control. When he is not in control of himself, his parents should be in control. It should not come down to a physical issue. Handicapped or not, the parents should have control. Their losing control isn't due to their physical inability to overpower their son. It started before anything got physical. That heirarchy of control has to be reestablished, and the 15 year old needs to be at the very BOTTOM of it.


Beating him into submission is only going to feed his negative emotions, and make him act out more.

[deevergote]

Where in ANY of my writing did I say that it should be ignored and left to go unanswered (we use the past tense here...)?



Yes "ignore it. he's a teenager. it's normal. just let it go"... Show me where I said that. Otherwise, please stop "disagreeing" with something I never said.

[CB7 Sleeper]

Thank you to owequitit, for the great reply. Thank you to evil demon for recognizing my rational and respectful thinking. The problem was resolved, and I'll be having a talk with him tomorrow morning about his situation, and what's going on in his life.

And also thank you deev, for all of your great advice and understanding.

[rave93]

dude that bites
Im only 17, and my bros 11 i think
Hope things get sorted out bro, cant really feel for you as this hasnt happened in the household, but i hope all goes well brother

[deevergote]

I should stop reading now. Getting cranky.

Good luck, Kevin. I know nobody can really offer advice that can truly apply, but hopefully something said here will give you an idea that will help things along in the right direction.

[91hondaaccordlx]

he is only 15, most kids around that age go thru rough stages, i know i did, im still younger and now have two kids of my own plus a step son who calls me daddy. i have hit my mom around the same age, not punch but slap, and i learned from it, shit i went to prison over hitting someone, but keep in mind he is only 15, get to his level and talk with him, yes he;s gonna argue where he has no point to back up his story but the gae is a hard age, i am almost 24 and still learning to keep my temper down, now if someone ever hit my mom ya shits gonna fly but he is your sibling, be a big brother and guide him, i wish i had that in my life, i have an 8 yr old brother who i get to look out for. sorry for the profanity,

[owequitit]

Where do you disagree, Scott? I didn't say his behavior was tolerable at any time. It shouldn't be tolerated at all. I said that he is irrational, explaining that he doesn't need a reason to go off... teenagers are often irrational when it comes to strong emotions. It doesn't need to be tolerated. He needs to learn self control.

However, the family needs to settle in a proper heirarchy, meaning the parents need to be in control. When he is not in control of himself, his parents should be in control. It should not come down to a physical issue. Handicapped or not, the parents should have control. Their losing control isn't due to their physical inability to overpower their son. It started before anything got physical. That heirarchy of control has to be reestablished, and the 15 year old needs to be at the very BOTTOM of it.


Beating him into submission is only going to feed his negative emotions, and make him act out more.

1) We disagree on several points.

Couseling is not needed. I personally suspect it would not even be fruitful.

In order for it to be effective, the counseled must be willing to change. In order for that to occur, it must be tangibly beneficial for them to do so as a person, i.e. they must WANT something out of it.

Then, they must be mature enough to be able to rationalize and discuss their way through it. It is unlikely that this particular teenager is going to be able to maximize that aspect, as if he were mature enough, he wouldn't be slapping people in the face just because.

2) Yes, control hierarchy should start from the top. However, it is quite clear that the parents are not in control, and have not been for quite some time. If the hierarchy had started when it should have, when the brother was a very small baby, then this wouldn't have happened.

However, since it DID happen, and it is quite clear that he didn't have the proper boundaries set at the proper time, talking about where hierarchy could or should come from is irrelevant. The fact that he talked to his parents MIGHT be an encouraging sign, but then again, it may not.

My point was that hierarchy was NOT properly established, as evidenced clearly by the behavior and subsequent punishment, so to talk about how it SHOULD have happened is probably irrelevant.

How do you set boundaries for someone who hasn't had any for so long? Well, as you would might agree, you may not be able to completely. But if you do, and are able to, it will require a lot more severity than if it had happened when it were young. At this age, he isn't likely to just mind all of a sudden. That could come in many forms, most of which are in fact NOT physical. Unfortunately, in order to set new bounds at this point, and or reset the hierarchy, he may need a little "shock" to get his attention, hence the reference to the spank. Spank him? Probably ineffective. However, you are going to have to reassert his position at the bottom, but in order to do so, it is going to take more than a "you should not behave that way" sort of talk. It has to be tangible and forceful enough to let him know that he is NOT in charge, and he does not make the decisions. It could be taking away his most prized possession, it might be a slight strategic embarrasment, or it could just be a game of submission.

It is also possible that as a teen, his emotions got the best of him, and he will learn on his own, but possibly not. I would EXPECT no, because it is unlikely that he sees a need to learn from it. Even an irrational teen with proper boundaries would have been unlikely to do this, although it wouldn't be unheard of. I tried it once. I had boundaries, and when I did try it, they were rapidly reasserted.

I agree that confrontation would not be the best way to proceed, but I don't agree that it can't be an effective motivator, or agent of change. A "spanking" or "swat" would technically be considered "physical" and at the same time can be extremely effective when used correctly.

The most effective change tools tend to be social.

Where in ANY of my writing did I say that it should be ignored and left to go unanswered (we use the past tense here...)?



Yes "ignore it. he's a teenager. it's normal. just let it go"... Show me where I said that. Otherwise, please stop "disagreeing" with something I never said.

I am going to assume this is targeted at me.

I didn't say you said it should be condoned. I agree that the parents should re-establish dominance, but given that he is 15 years old, and acted like this, it is likely that they haven't had dominance in years, if ever. They can't re-establish something they didn't have. That is what I was disagreeing about.

I also disagreed that nothing can come of physical threat. I am not saying whoop his ass, or anything of the sort, but if he refused to take his position at the bottom, then more drastic steps are needed. Just like in nature. At this point, and if he has been out of control for some time, then he isn't just going to fold and start to show respect.

P.S. I am not speaking as a psychologist, but rather a practical one that deals with people and their barriers, attitudes and mental blocks all day long, so don't think I am trying to "overpower" you. However, as my father is a psychologist, and we talk about such things all the time, I am not completely in the dark either. I sort of just used your post as a jumping off point, not to piss you off. You are reading more into it than what is there.

[owequitit]

Where in ANY of my writing did I say that it should be ignored and left to go unanswered (we use the past tense here...)?



Yes "ignore it. he's a teenager. it's normal. just let it go"... Show me where I said that. Otherwise, please stop "disagreeing" with something I never said.

There. I took it out. It wasn't how I meant it.

[cb7pr]

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Let's not actually TEACH our kids how to make good choices and control their behavior so that they can see the errors of their ways... Instead, let's just let them do what they want, and hope they magically stumble across good decision making skills on their own.

i sense some sarcasm...

My sister was 17 yrs old when this happened...she was given the same education and direction as I did; it comes to a point where a teen has to grow up, and start making his/her decisions; I did.

Today, I have a good life, married to a great woman, and have a pretty good future set out. Ever since I left my home and went to college, I have been on my own...all choices I made on my own since I was 17.

[deevergote]

1)
I am going to assume this is targeted at me.

That one was targeted at the guy after you... hence my use of his phrasing.





I never said that the hierarchy of control should have been established. I said that it needs to be re-established. It did exist at one time, even if it was when the boy was still in diapers. The parents need to regain control of the situation, and stop letting their son walk all over them. Counseling will indeed help this, as they seem to be lacking the skills necessary to maintain control.
I never focus on what should have been done... only what has yet to be done. You can't change the past, but looking at it will let you know where you need to start.

A physical threat will only promote his violent behavior. Lead by example? Don't go to his violent and angry level. He is challenging authority with his actions. He knows he can beat his parents physically, and he's using that. The parents need to be in control.
Kevin could take him down physically... maybe. If his back doesn't give out. But what is that going to do? Create a new challenge. A brother that is 3 years older is not an acceptable authority figure. Kevin should not be the one to attempt to wrangle control, because it will turn into an eternal power struggle. He is not, and should not be, his brother's authority figure. That is up to the parents.


The brother needs help with his anger issues, if it has gone so far as to strike his handicapped mother. The parents need to learn more effective methods of maintaining control in the household.

Kevin, support your parents. That's your role in this. Anything more would be undermining their authority, and it wouldn't help. If anything, it could hurt the situation. Only act if you're capable of preventing direct harm (if your brother goes to hit your mom again, stop him! But don't seek him out for a violent conflict after something has been done).
Talk to your brother. Play the role of the concerned older brother, but not an order giver. You aren't in a position to tell him what to do, and he won't respect you as an authority figure. The only thing you can go on is his respect for you as his older brother. Play on his respect for you, however much that may be. It will be far more effective than anything else.