Blame the USA for the earthquake....its always our fault..lol

[Extacee]

lol right damn you fluoride! but any how, why is it when i mentioned the zeitgeist a while back i got shot down, i want people to watch this, with an open mind of course.

[zack_odom]

I posted that up when the movie came out. the thread was epic lol.

[Extacee]

I posted that up when the movie came out. the thread was epic lol.

lol yeah? i believe that there was a lot of "thats such bullshit" comments right lol

there is 2 parts you know right?

[owequitit]

i am willing to agree with you on flouride its good in some ways bad in others. How old are you btw, you seem not like the other 12 year old minds on here, lol. Have you seen the documentaries such as the zeitgeist and such. i know it could be complete bull shit but its something to think about, you know like the "what if factor"
[/URL]

I am VERY choosey about my documentaries.

Most "documentaries" in this day and age are simply propaganda masquerading as truth. It is a very dangerous weapon.

Loose Change, and anything by Michael Moore come to mind right of the top of my head.

I can also tell you off the top of my head that 99.9% certain Zeitgeist is also trash. The fact that it uses other conspiracy theories to support itself is smoking gun of stupidity, because I can personally guarantee, just through MY personal knowledge of aviation that Loose Change was full of shit. I have also poured over all of the data, the reports, the physics etc, and the only way to make a movie like Loose Change or Zeitgeist plausible is to either omit important facts, or not be expert enough on the material to fully comprehend what you are looking at.

There are many cases in point where the author of Loose Change raises questions that SEEM plausible to him, or any other layman, but aviation experts would be able to identify, shoot down, and explain right off the top of their heads.

If you want to see some REAL documentaries on 9/11, Al Qaida, The Pentagon, etc. etc., The Discovery Channel, The History Channel and the National Geographic Channel is where it is at, because unlike Loose Change and Zeitgeist, they use actual experts on the field who can elaborate and explain what they know. The creators of Loose Change and Zeitgeist probably can't do that when questioned beyond their limited sphere of knowledge. Furthermore, the "experts" that are involved in the explanation in documentaries on NatGeo etc, can actually substantiate their claims with real honest to God science, and not hokey speculation, partial truths and side steps around deflected questions.

These all fall into the category of propaganda. Why you ask? They are one of two things. They either seek to "expose" something which they can not PROVE, and thus are left to resort to half truths and speculation (the problem with speculation is that there is a 50/50 chance it is right or wrong). To base our "forward progress" on such things is pretty stupid if you ask me.

Finally, more often than not, the original author has a political motivation behind the "documentary" that laces an underlying theme throughout the film.

Michael Moore is a Socialist pig, with his biased and outright deceitful bullshit that he calls "documentaries." They don't pose hypothesis, they don't ask legitimate questions, they don't substantiate anything with fact, they merely appear in such a fashion as to be plausible to the layman.

Zeitgeist is the same crap, different creator. The theme of the movie Zeitgeist is how "organized" religion, governments, and super mysterious behind the curtains "wizards" have all conspired through history to take away our liberties.

Don't you find it odd that not only does the creator NOT have any academic expertise on the subject matter, no professional credentials on the subject matter and just happens to be an activist for the abolition of money? What a freaking coincidence that he happens to make a movie that pushes his idea of where things should go. If that doesn't literally SCREAM bullshit, I don't know what does. Of course, the fact that he has no actual facts, no substantiation, no documentation, no scientific proof, and I am guessing no expert backing, is probably no big deal right? I mean when a doctor wants to treat you for cancer just because he wants to see what happens when someone gets irradiated, that is OK right?

Furthermore, pursuant to the Zeitgeist agenda, here is where the director really dropped the ball. His whole political motivation is to end the monetary system so that everything is based on resources. The problem that he, and apparently millions of others, are neglecting to see is that we were ALREADY there several centuries ago. We had to change the economy, because the resources are even more limited than the "money" and thus poverty differentials would be greater because scarcity would be greater. If you don't understand scarcity, look it up. He THINKS he wants to solve poverty, but what he really wants is to drive us deeper into it because he doesn't have the cognitive ability or expertise to see that a) we tried that once and it failed, and b) to have the foresight to see where it would actually take people. In short, he developed a touchy feely solution to a real problem with real pitfalls, but because it makes his stomach feel all pretty, he is going to pursue it anyway.

He is a nutjob douchebag, and he is far more dangerous than ANYBODY sitting in a position of great governmental power because the masses don't question him.

But that isn't even the scariest part. The scariest part is that millions and millions of people actually BUY this bullshit and it gets worse every year such is the extent of the spreading disease we call ignorance.

Do you want to know the truth about 9/11?

1) A small group of financed terrorists spent 5 years trying to learn the weaknesses in our aviation security system. They weren't hard to find, as they were everywhere. Aviation security was a big facade of protection that didn't really exist. I can easily elaborate if need be.

2) They spent 5 years learning the weakness, putting people here to study it and gather intel. We have people the world over that do that everday. Why can't they? They can.

3) They used bad paperwork to get through the system, because politically, we didn't want to question foreigners in our country because the ACLU and several other douchebag organizations would have crawled up our tailpipe accusing us of profiling, discrimination, racism etc. So, they were allowed to pass, even though the documents were wholly suspect. The single terrorist that did get kicked out by a Customs agent nearly cost that agent his job, because the liberals thought it was un PC for that man to be denied entry. The Customs agent stood his ground and said the paperwork was suspect, it didn't add up, the person couldn't answer basic questions like "where will you be staying" etc. Still, they wanted to hang him. It wasn't until several days to several weeks AFTER 9/11 that investigators realized that the terrorists were 1 man short because of that Custom's agent, and to this day it is speculated that is why United Flight 93 was never able to reach its target. They were 1 man short, and guess who that man was? The one that nearly cost an agent his job.

The terrorists knew exactly how big the knife could be before they had to check it. They knew exactly where to sit. They knew exactly how to get into the cockpit, they knew exactly how many men it would take, they picked the airplanes because they knew how big they needed to be and how much fuel they needed in order to successfully take out the targets they wanted to hit, they knew how to get there, they knew how to shut the transponder off, they knew what time to do everything, and they knew just enough about flying to get the planes to the target. They knew exactly what the needed to know in order to pull off the job. Why? It was all easy to find if you just looked and observed.

Then because of our bureaucratic complacancy and veil of false safety, and 35 independent system all designed to function seperately, the response to the problem was inadequate. Essentially, our own government failed to protect us, not because of some huge elaborate conspiracy, but because we were too arrogant in our own greatness to realize that less than 15 brown guys from the Middle East could thoroughly defeat our entire defense system.

And defeat it they did. They hijacked REAL airplanes, the flew those REAL airplanes into REAL targets, and they killed thousands of innocent Americans in the process.

The real tragedy is that rather than suck it up, realize we are NOT safe and modify the system to suit, we would rather believe some 19 year old numbnuts from college who happens to make a movie about how evil George Bush is and how there is some elaborately woven net of mind control that we can't see and can't get passed. Bullshit. You can think whatever the fuck you want, and do whatever the fuck you want, whenever the fuck you want to, so how could you possibly be under the control of 1 man? Bullshit. It doesn't make sense.

IF, and that is a big IF, there was a conspiracy for 9/11, it was us financing them behind scenes. It wasn't some big elaborate million man conspriracy and anyone who believes that shit is an idiot, I don't CARE if they want to hear that or not. A Senator can't have an affair in Brazil and Bill Clinton can't get a BJ in the Oval Office without SOMEONE leaking something, and yet I am supposed to believe that millions of regular Americans were involved in this attack, and nobody is talking? Bullshit.

However, given that NONE of the money trails came back to the US, and we can find dirty money in Washington without lifting a toilet seat, it is far more likely that there is actually a group of radical whacked out nutjobs that wants to keep their women on chains, wants the power left off, and doesn't want to shower for 3 years. In order to control their people, to maintain that way of life, and keep the rise of dissention down, they have to build us and our way of life into the enemy, much as DUMBO CHAVEZ is trying to do with this earthquake rubbish. What are they going to do, tell their people that the reason they are starving and live in mud huts is so they can keep power? Not likely.

[owequitit]

The thing that REALLY pisses me off though, isn't some fat piss ant in Venezuela with a big head and a little dick.

The thing that REALLY pisses me off are the millions of Americans who watch this outright diarrhea on the internet and say "OMG, my government is trying to kill me."

Rather than get off their fat lazy, uneducated, spoon fed asses, and CHANGE their government, which they wholly have the guaranteed power to do, they would rather sit on their fat, dumb asses, drinking beer and saying "1 man can't make a difference." They justify, rationalize and project their way into creating the same bullshit they are actually afraid of. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Currently, the government is pandering to 20% of the population, because the other 80% is apathetic and isn't intelligent enough to start barking about how fucked up shit is.

It is just total horseshit about "government control." There is no "government control," no organized tyranny, no divine plan, no master scheme, and no super-magical-dazzle weapons. There is only laziness and excuses on the part of the masses who are so dumbed down by laziness in this day and age, they believe what happens on a sitcom is representative of real life. So when some A-hole comes along telling you how God and the Jews are orchestrating the mass control of human beings, and calls it a "documentary" the average person thinks "oh, he said it was a documentary, so it MUST be true." Hitler called his movies documentaries too. But we know better now, don't we?

Bullshit.

[Extacee]

@owequitit

wow good read, i was having doubts on those documentaries, it didn't all make sense, but i would say it is an art on how to convince people to believe all that stuff. Needless to say that i was merely entering college; i was too much a fool to see all the bullshit as do younger teens do also. I would watch that documentary again just to see how dumb i was. you do point out a lot of great stuff and i cant agree more on the observations the hi jakers made, intelligent approach but just like computer hackers, one must test defense in order to strengthen it right? something in that realm.

anyhow, very interesting i must say. id rather listen to someone who knows his stuff (and back it up might i add) than a clueless idiot.

thank you sir

you made me realize how dumb the young can be, i feel stupid lol

[Extacee]

The thing that REALLY pisses me off though, isn't some fat piss ant in Venezuela with a big head and a little dick.

The thing that REALLY pisses me off are the millions of Americans who watch this outright diarrhea on the internet and say "OMG, my government is trying to kill me."

Rather than get off their fat lazy, uneducated, spoon fed asses, and CHANGE their government, which they wholly have the guaranteed power to do, they would rather sit on their fat, dumb asses, drinking beer and saying "1 man can't make a difference." They justify, rationalize and project their way into creating the same bullshit they are actually afraid of. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Currently, the government is pandering to 20% of the population, because the other 80% is apathetic and isn't intelligent enough to start barking about how fucked up shit is.

It is just total horseshit about "government control." There is no "government control," no organized tyranny, no divine plan, no master scheme, and no super-magical-dazzle weapons. There is only laziness and excuses on the part of the masses who are so dumbed down by laziness in this day and age, they believe what happens on a sitcom is representative of real life. So when some A-hole comes along telling you how God and the Jews are orchestrating the mass control of human beings, and calls it a "documentary" the average person thinks "oh, he said it was a documentary, so it MUST be true." Hitler called his movies documentaries too. But we know better now, don't we?

Bullshit.

again you amaze me with your intelligence, you are very good a this and true on all counts, we are lazy well the 80% you mentioned

[owequitit]

@owequitit

wow good read, i was having doubts on those documentaries, it didn't all make sense, but i would say it is an art on how to convince people to believe all that stuff. Needless to say that i was merely entering college; i was too much a fool to see all the bullshit as do younger teens do also. I would watch that documentary again just to see how dumb i was. you do point out a lot of great stuff and i cant agree more on the observations the hi jakers made, intelligent approach but just like computer hackers, one must test defense in order to strengthen it right? something in that realm.

anyhow, very interesting i must say. id rather listen to someone who knows his stuff (and back it up might i add) than a clueless idiot.

thank you sir

you made me realize how dumb the young can be, i feel stupid lol

The purpose is not to make you feel dumb as much as to shock you into questioning and thinking.

I teach for a living, so I have learned that engaging minds is often a difficult and laborious process. Sometimes you have to shock and awe people into wanting to learn, and sometimes it just fails outright. You can't teach or expand those that don't want to, no matter how hard you try.

However, the base principal is very simple. Question equally, and relentlessly. This is the best way to get the most likely truth to surface, because only the truth can survive such questioning. That truth is often not what we want to see, or often expect to see, but it is usually the truth nonetheless.

When you start to question all angles of a story equally, and relentlessly, you quickly get a sense of center because everything is always told in its own best light, if there is a slant to it. Take kids fighting for instance. It is always someone else's fault, never the child's you are talking to right? But by questioning both kids, you usually get a pretty accurate feel for what actually happened.

Also, anything worth being true can be substantiated. Which means the deeper you dig, it doesn't start to fall apart like the conspiracy theories do. The more relentlessly you question, and investigate, the more it holds up.

The whole purpose of graduate level learning, is to get used to scrutiny and questioning. Relentless questioning. You don't advance the scientific community, or gain its respect by blabbering a bunch of nonsense. That is why movies like Michael Moore's, Loose Change and Zeitgeist are never well received by peer review, and are never substantiated by those who are actual, credible experts, because the boat doesn't float so to speak.

[Extacee]

i see said the blind man. i want to grasp that knowledge someday. its amazing really.

[deevergote]

The whole purpose of graduate level learning, is to get used to scrutiny and questioning. Relentless questioning. You don't advance the scientific community, or gain its respect by blabbering a bunch of nonsense. That is why movies like Michael Moore's, Loose Change and Zeitgeist are never well received by peer review, and are never substantiated by those who are actual, credible experts, because the boat doesn't float so to speak.

That is the absolute truth.
Sometimes common sense, circumstance, and rational assumptions can lead to extremely convincing arguments... that are also 100% false.

If you notice one thing about conspiracy theories, they all have a common theme... someone, or some thing, that we have a limited understanding of (either out lazy ignorance, or a legitimate lack of information) is somehow responsible for a certain event. The American people actually have a very limited understanding of their own government, so they are willing to believe that there are monsters lurking in the shadows, out of their sight, and out of their control. They believe that these monsters are capable of orchestrating outlandish events. They are satisfied with theories, circumstance, and a reliance on their own ignorance as "proof".

Are there people with great power in the shadows of our government? I'm sure there are. Are there people doing things that they shouldn't be doing, out of the public eye? I'm sure. Are they capable of doing such things due to any sort of diabolical organization, or inhuman superpower? No. They are capable of doing such things because people aren't smart enough to know what's going on. Most of these "things" are illegal tax breaks, money exchanging hands for "favors", etc... Not building weapons that can control the weather and destroy nations.

[Gemini]

Wow.

Scott pretty much summed up a lot of shit.

I just want to touch on the homeless here.

LOL!

Of all the people who are living in this country in conditions like pre-earthquake Haiti, oh wait there are none.

Ok so for all the people who are poor and homeless, half of that group most likely chooses to be.

A lot of them have mental disorders(At least here in NYC) and were released to the public when the Asylums closed years ago. They are an unfortunate group that should never have been released.

However, half the people i encounter here that are homeless could afford to get their shit together and get a job.

The most basic job here should at least pay $5.50 or more for MW.

You are lucky if you make $10 a day in Haiti. Most people don't.

It's not even comparable to the people here.

I disagree with the idea that the US never takes care of its own. Do you feel safe when you hang out at the mall?

Do you enjoy driving your cb down the street with your loud ass muffler?

Do you enjoy fucking your gf in the back of the movie theater?

Well if you do, you can surely thank your parents and then the US government(in some form) for the right to do so.\

Sure the Government has made mistakes in the past(local or federal) as i believe its not a perfect system, only one that is in a constant struggle to perfect its game.

In the end there is a lot of behind the scenes shit that people either don't know about because they don't want to know, or because they don't know what a newspaper is anymore.

one thing though, i was told awhile back that if you dont have a legal address(no Po boxes) you cant be employed which makes it damn near impossible for a homeless person to get a job even when a job is readily available.

[owequitit]

one thing though, i was told awhile back that if you dont have a legal address(no Po boxes) you cant be employed which makes it damn near impossible for a homeless person to get a job even when a job is readily available.

This is probably true, although I know a lot of people that get around this one way or another.

It follows the old saying, that where there is a will there is a way.

I do agree with Ralphie though that a lot of our "homeless" are displaced people with issues that have nowhere else to go.

We get a lot of them in the summertime because this is a moderate climate area of AZ, so they come up from the deserts in the summer, and hang out downtown. Many of them are broken down vet's, bipolar, or just people with sociological issues. Some have physical disabilities that prevent the from working etc. To a degree, some of them will never be employable. In fact, from an economics standpoint, we are considered to be fully employeed at about 96% because roughly 4% will never be capable of fending for themselves, which includes these people. It also accounts for the % of people that would be temporarily between jobs etc. Coincidentally, our poverty level is roughly the same %, which means that overall, we actually have very few capable people living in "poverty." Granted, they may not have the best lifestyle money can buy, but they aren't technically impoverished either.

Let me know if you would like to see the data. I would be happy to go and find it, but I believe it is the bureau of labor statistics that has it.

[kantkillkeenan]

Well... at least not for the purpose of testing a weapon!

Though I suppose destroying Haiti to test a weapon to be used against Iran wouldn't be much different than "liberating" Iraq just so we could maintain a military foothold in Iran's back yard.

Granted, we took Iraq with at least SOME international support, and we weren't secretive about it. We didn't indiscriminately attack civilians, at least not on a large scale (I'm sure many have died by US weapons, but I'm sure they were never the intended targets).

Does Hiroshima ring a bell Deev??


lol

they def didnt have to drop that bitch but man we gotta see how many people it kills..haah

[deevergote]

Well, that was also a bit of an act of desperation. The Japanese just were not stopping. We could've beaten them eventually, at the cost of many more lives on both sides. It was an act of war, with a purpose (questionable, I agree... but at least SOME purpose). We didn't just nuke Japan because we wanted to make some people glow.
The worst thing anyone from Haiti did was float to the US on rafts. Hardly the same as being the only foreign military to successfully launch an attack on American soil in the past 100+ years.

[Masamune]

And here I thought HAARP was only responsible for killing kittens by the millions...