New Car: WRX - Si - Mazdaspeed - Cobalt SS

[Pazzword JDM]

In stock form across the board, it's not.

But when you up the boost on the turbo cars, the Si is going to have a hard time keeping up. It's not so cheap and easy to get power out of the Si. I know the K20 responds well to mods, but cranking the boost up 3-4psi with an ECU reflash is easier and cheaper than any NA mods that would give a similar gain for the K20.


Of course, every tuner equates "faster" with "better"... and that isn't necessarily the case. The build quality of the Cobalt is poor, especially the interior (minus the seats, which I have read are actually good). The interior of most Subarus is fairly uninspired... pure functionality. My personal experience with the Mazda3 interior (first generation) was that it was quite cramped... though I did like the quality of the materials, even in the base model rental car I had.

Of the group, the Civic's interior is very likely the best. Honda ergonomics have always been praised (aside from the recent Accord and TL, with their button-crazy consoles...)

The reliability of the Civic is very likely higher than the rest, due partially to the fact that it doesn't have a turbo nuking the engine on a daily basis, and partially because it's a Honda... running one of Honda's finest engines to date.

The Si's steering has been criticized as being numb. I've been in one, but never driven one... so I can't say for sure. But I can say that my 09 Fit's steering is terribly numb. It's responsive as hell, and I have no complaints... but coming from my power-steering-less CB7, it's a difference I can notice!

The Cobalt probably has the least aftermarket support. The others are all very well supported. GM's performance parts tend to cost a good deal more than their standard crap (I learned this with my GTP), so the Cobalt isn't necessarily going to have "cheap domestic" repair prices.
Subaru's repair parts generally come at a premium. Subaru kinda fills that grey area between luxury and economy.
Mazdaspeed parts are also expensive... though regular Mazda parts are about on par with Honda, I'd think.



Financially, the Civic is the smart buy. Do you really need a "fast" car anyway?

I agree with deev, the civic is the smart buy. however, I would still go with the STI just because I love the look to them and the hatchback style. I also like the idea of having a turbo car from factory. I'd do an aftermarket BOV, exhaust, and ecu, then focus mainly on exterior and suspension with this car. It's a born rally car already.

[deevergote]

He's talking WRX, not STi... BIG price difference! (and the new WRX supposedly outruns the new STi...)

[owequitit]

In stock form across the board, it's not.

But when you up the boost on the turbo cars, the Si is going to have a hard time keeping up. It's not so cheap and easy to get power out of the Si. I know the K20 responds well to mods, but cranking the boost up 3-4psi with an ECU reflash is easier and cheaper than any NA mods that would give a similar gain for the K20.


Of course, every tuner equates "faster" with "better"... and that isn't necessarily the case. The build quality of the Cobalt is poor, especially the interior (minus the seats, which I have read are actually good). The interior of most Subarus is fairly uninspired... pure functionality. My personal experience with the Mazda3 interior (first generation) was that it was quite cramped... though I did like the quality of the materials, even in the base model rental car I had.

Of the group, the Civic's interior is very likely the best. Honda ergonomics have always been praised (aside from the recent Accord and TL, with their button-crazy consoles...)

The reliability of the Civic is very likely higher than the rest, due partially to the fact that it doesn't have a turbo nuking the engine on a daily basis, and partially because it's a Honda... running one of Honda's finest engines to date.

The Si's steering has been criticized as being numb. I've been in one, but never driven one... so I can't say for sure. But I can say that my 09 Fit's steering is terribly numb. It's responsive as hell, and I have no complaints... but coming from my power-steering-less CB7, it's a difference I can notice!

The Cobalt probably has the least aftermarket support. The others are all very well supported. GM's performance parts tend to cost a good deal more than their standard crap (I learned this with my GTP), so the Cobalt isn't necessarily going to have "cheap domestic" repair prices.
Subaru's repair parts generally come at a premium. Subaru kinda fills that grey area between luxury and economy.
Mazdaspeed parts are also expensive... though regular Mazda parts are about on par with Honda, I'd think.



Financially, the Civic is the smart buy. Do you really need a "fast" car anyway?

I hate to be a pisser, but the REALITY is that power is NOT that expensive to extract out of the Civic. In most cases, in most of those boosted cars, you are replacing a lot of the same parts you would on a Civic to get the power out of them.

Frankly, for a full bolt on exhaust, cams, intake and ECU tune, you can be looking at very near 300HP.

Boost is also an option for not terribly a lot of money. Check out AJP racing. Kraftwerks is also working on a kit.

While it might not make quite the same level of power, you must consider a couple of things that occur in reality, which are usually counter to every boy racer's dream.

1) ALL FWD cars with that kind of power are extremely traction limited. That is why despite the amount of HP people are throwing at cars like a Cobalt, the times are not decreasing on a level with something like the WRX.

2) Weight. The Civic is lighter than all those cars. Some by a significant margin. Not a lot lighter, but every 100lbs requires less power to be competitive.

3) The higher redline and lower gearing help mitigate a lot of the power "deficit." Don't forget that gearing multiplies torque a lot.

People have no problems running similar times to a Cobalt or MS3 with the price difference in bolt ons (the SI also happens to be among the cheaper options). Mostly, that is due to the extreme lack of traction these cars have, but nonetheless, it is a truth. Some people are running almost as quick times with the cars stock.

I am not saying that is a reason to buy an SI, personally, the OP should just drive shit and see what he likes, and go from there. A bunch of biased people on a forum don't help the cause any. Its his payment, and he should pay for what he thinks is best. I just get tired of the "Si is sloooooow" crap. Like a tire spinning FWD neon is fast.

If you want fast, try doing 130MPH in a 35MPH zone on a CBR600RR, while running from the cops. You will NEVER get in a car short of a fully built 9 second drag car and feel "fast" again.

For the record, the SI's steering is a little numb (not as bad as some make it sound), but what it lacks in feel, it makes up for in accuracy, responsiveness, and path control. So really, IMO it is a wash. In many ways it is among the best, and in others, it is not so good. I.E. Depending on priorities, it balances out like every other car design on the road.

P.S. The 350 miles I just got out of 10 gallons was a nice bonus considering I didn't drive easy.

[deevergote]

That is true... The Cobalt MIGHT be close in price to the Civic, but the MS3 and WRX are a good deal more, I believe (I can't thnik of the MS3 price offhand, but I know the WRX is around 27k msrp, no?) I'd trust a properly boosted and tuned Civic Si (stock block) to last over a Cobalt SS. That Civic Si would make at least as much power as the WRX, if not more (probably more... but I'm thinking to be conservative for realiability), and cost no more.



We need more affordable turbo RWD cars. FWD cars are traction limited, and AWD cars have "glass transmissions" (not that they're weak, but a hard launch that grabs immediately is pretty hard on the transmission). We have decent NA RWD offerings from Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Mazda, and Hyundai that are hovering around the 30k mark. You could possibly even put the cheaper BMWs in that group, such as the sub-30k 128i... but the BMW cost of ownership puts it in a different league once the warranty is up.
However, Hyundai's turbo 4 is the only fairly inexpensive option... and as you've experienced firsthand, Scott... it's not spectacular (though I still put it on par with the 240sx, had we gotten that in turbo form... that car wasn't spectacular in terms of performance or quality either...)

[h22sparkle]

I got 300 plus whp and i get traction very wheel and i still have top-end power with my car. As for the other cars they can get traction its how you drive and the suspension setup and electronic elements that aid in that if you know how to use them.

I cant speak for the other cars but the aside from the cobalt the new cobalt has launch control and a tcs system at the push of a button and your good to go.

Honestly for the amount of money you spend into a civic to get one is just not enough it leaves you wanting more. And why open up a motor just to give it more power.

I rather throw a bolt-on to a turbo or supercharged car. Most of the reliability issue shit is a myth a cars a car.
The main reason it doesnt have that many issues is because its not making enough power to cause issues most of em are either minor or negligence of the driver.Mostly due not taking care of it ahead of time like reinforcing parts to handle the power.

Who doesnt want a fast car nowadays? especially if you can afford it. Now deev i dont know about gm parts being expensive my boys cobalt ss his parts costs cheaper than mine and he had less stuff to do all he did was plug in the computer and change the pully on the supercharger. Next hes gotta get a bigger heat exchanger the pully is 130.00. I driven a si before and it just wasnt worth it the interior was okay but wheres the performance. Now with a turbo or supercharged car with bigger injectors and wastegate or bigger pully with a diablo sport tune will have you runnin away from the honda scene like fuck this i want more for my money trust me on this.

[h22sparkle]

When you speak of mazdaspeed do you speak of the mazdaspeed-3 or mazdaspeed-6?

[owequitit]

That is true... The Cobalt MIGHT be close in price to the Civic, but the MS3 and WRX are a good deal more, I believe (I can't thnik of the MS3 price offhand, but I know the WRX is around 27k msrp, no?) I'd trust a properly boosted and tuned Civic Si (stock block) to last over a Cobalt SS. That Civic Si would make at least as much power as the WRX, if not more (probably more... but I'm thinking to be conservative for realiability), and cost no more.



We need more affordable turbo RWD cars. FWD cars are traction limited, and AWD cars have "glass transmissions" (not that they're weak, but a hard launch that grabs immediately is pretty hard on the transmission). We have decent NA RWD offerings from Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Mazda, and Hyundai that are hovering around the 30k mark. You could possibly even put the cheaper BMWs in that group, such as the sub-30k 128i... but the BMW cost of ownership puts it in a different league once the warranty is up.
However, Hyundai's turbo 4 is the only fairly inexpensive option... and as you've experienced firsthand, Scott... it's not spectacular (though I still put it on par with the 240sx, had we gotten that in turbo form... that car wasn't spectacular in terms of performance or quality either...)

Honestly, I would probably say the Nissan would have been better. Nissan always made pretty harmonious powertrains, which frankly was my biggest complaint about the Genesis 2.0T. It just didn't work with itself.

Now, yes, you can certainly upgrade turbo cars, and I am NOT saying that. But usually, in the interests of "boost response" they tend to undersize the turbos a bit from the factory. You don't usually get all that far before you have to start thinking about upgrading that, and that is never cheap.

It is not uncommon to get 30-40WHP out of a good exhaust setup on an Si, and that is with a reflash and nothing else. Just a reflash, with nothing else will gain you around 15-20WHP through the VTEC hole. That is 1500RPM right in the prime part of the powerband (~4500-5800ish). Start extending the rev limit (like I said, the stock block is good to about 9-9.5K and the head is good to about 9K also with no mods, and if you can maintain the torque, the engine will be doing quite well. They also actually have a good curve, so if the boost is optimized you don't exactly end up with a B16 turbo that is dead until 7K.

[owequitit]

I got 300 plus whp and i get traction very wheel and i still have top-end power with my car. As for the other cars they can get traction its how you drive and the suspension setup and electronic elements that aid in that if you know how to use them.

I cant speak for the other cars but the aside from the cobalt the new cobalt has launch control and a tcs system at the push of a button and your good to go.

Honestly for the amount of money you spend into a civic to get one is just not enough it leaves you wanting more. And why open up a motor just to give it more power.

Funny, because everytime I have to get out of a neon to walk around back and roll the windows down manually, it really leaves me wanting more.

I rather throw a bolt-on to a turbo or supercharged car. Most of the reliability issue shit is a myth a cars a car.
The main reason it doesnt have that many issues is because its not making enough power to cause issues most of em are either minor or negligence of the driver.Mostly due not taking care of it ahead of time like reinforcing parts to handle the power.

Yeah, because Dodge has the reputation for long lasting cars that they do because their shit is just as reliable as everyone else's...

Who doesnt want a fast car nowadays? especially if you can afford it. Now deev i dont know about gm parts being expensive my boys cobalt ss his parts costs cheaper than mine and he had less stuff to do all he did was plug in the computer and change the pully on the supercharger. Next hes gotta get a bigger heat exchanger the pully is 130.00. I driven a si before and it just wasnt worth it the interior was okay but wheres the performance. Now with a turbo or supercharged car with bigger injectors and wastegate or bigger pully with a diablo sport tune will have you runnin away from the honda scene like fuck this i want more for my money trust me on this.

1) Define "fast," because apparently, your version and my version are quite different. I already described my version in my last post.

2) Bullshit.

Your electronic gizmos give you traction by limiting power output. Simple as that. They aren't magic electrons, they simply pull power allowing the power produced to not overwhelm the tires. FYI, if your nannies are pulling power, then you aren't getting 100% of your advertised HP. Period.

300WHP? Is that all? I can get that out of a stock block Si with a bolt on turbo system (just like the one you say you like better). Pretty sad if you ask me. My point was that you can get 300WHP out of the K20 without boost, if you so choose. Or you can boost it and get those numbers. Either way. The nice thing is you have the choice. Personally, I would rather sacrifice the straight line performance to have a rip snorting 9K NA engine.

3) I figured you would chime in with your neon egalitarian attitude, as usual. Nobody gives a fuck Sparkle. Frankly, a neon isn't a part of the conversation, and is not a consideration, so it is a moot point. We were discussing the relative merits of the choices the OP posted. Nobody really cares how blue or how fast you think your car is. Oh yeah, and "if you can afford it?" What do you drive some piece of unobtanium now? Really?

The FACT of the matter is that IF you WANT 300HP out of an Si, you CAN get it, and you CAN get it easily. You can bitch, piss, moan, kick, scream, holler and front all you want about your Mopar Madness. It doesn't change the reality of the fact that the K20 is just begging to be unleashed. But frankly, it doesn't matter. They all have merits and demerits.

1) The WRX is fastest, but most expensive. It won't get the best MPG. It has the biggest engine with the most power and AWD.

2) The MS3 is a fine car. I have my reservations about the direct injection, supporting evidence of which I already posted. It comes with a lot of features for the money, and is most likely going to be at least fairly reliable overall, if the DI problems never surface.

3) The Cobalt is, well, a Chevy. The interior is utter and complete garbage, the build quality is subpar, it doesn't have IRS, and until Chevy shows me their shit actually lasts, it could be made of gold and outrun the space shuttle, and I would still not in good conscience recommend it. When their crap starts lasting, THEN I will believe they have improved quality. Not a second before.

4) The Si will probably be the slowest everday. It IS nearly as quick, but you have to ring the living shit out of it to get it to do it. But, if you want to, it is the most balanced of the 3, has great features, a great price, and is a great amount of fun to drive. It is superb on gas, has a sublime transmission, sounds awesome and is just about perfect with the amount of power it has. But then again, my idea of a good time comes in squiggles and not dragstrips.

[h22sparkle]

Funny, because everytime I have to get out of a neon to walk around back and roll the windows down manually, it really leaves me wanting more.



Yeah, because Dodge has the reputation for long lasting cars that they do because their shit is just as reliable as everyone else's...



1) Define "fast," because apparently, your version and my version are quite different. I already described my version in my last post.

2) Bullshit.

Your electronic gizmos give you traction by limiting power output. Simple as that. They aren't magic electrons, they simply pull power allowing the power produced to not overwhelm the tires. FYI, if your nannies are pulling power, then you aren't getting 100% of your advertised HP. Period.

300WHP? Is that all? I can get that out of a stock block Si with a bolt on turbo system (just like the one you say you like better). Pretty sad if you ask me. My point was that you can get 300WHP out of the K20 without boost, if you so choose. Or you can boost it and get those numbers. Either way. The nice thing is you have the choice. Personally, I would rather sacrifice the straight line performance to have a rip snorting 9K NA engine.

3) I figured you would chime in with your neon egalitarian attitude, as usual. Nobody gives a fuck Sparkle. Frankly, a neon isn't a part of the conversation, and is not a consideration, so it is a moot point. We were discussing the relative merits of the choices the OP posted. Nobody really cares how blue or how fast you think your car is. Oh yeah, and "if you can afford it?" What do you drive some piece of unobtanium now? Really?

The FACT of the matter is that IF you WANT 300HP out of an Si, you CAN get it, and you CAN get it easily. You can bitch, piss, moan, kick, scream, holler and front all you want about your Mopar Madness. It doesn't change the reality of the fact that the K20 is just begging to be unleashed. But frankly, it doesn't matter. They all have merits and demerits.

1) The WRX is fastest, but most expensive. It won't get the best MPG. It has the biggest engine with the most power and AWD.

2) The MS3 is a fine car. I have my reservations about the direct injection, supporting evidence of which I already posted. It comes with a lot of features for the money, and is most likely going to be at least fairly reliable overall, if the DI problems never surface.

3) The Cobalt is, well, a Chevy. The interior is utter and complete garbage, the build quality is subpar, it doesn't have IRS, and until Chevy shows me their shit actually lasts, it could be made of gold and outrun the space shuttle, and I would still not in good conscience recommend it. When their crap starts lasting, THEN I will believe they have improved quality. Not a second before.

4) The Si will probably be the slowest everday. It IS nearly as quick, but you have to ring the living shit out of it to get it to do it. But, if you want to, it is the most balanced of the 3, has great features, a great price, and is a great amount of fun to drive. It is superb on gas, has a sublime transmission, sounds awesome and is just about perfect with the amount of power it has. But then again, my idea of a good time comes in squiggles and not dragstrips.

You make the comment about the rear windows that doesnt bother me because there are manual kits out there and some neons that have widnows that roll down as an option or you can leave it that way stock as is so i could care less.

As for the thing about pulling power no it doesnt pull power it limits it when its set at a certain voltage in the pcm timing is still the same it just gets higher in a different gear and allows more vacuum in boost to provide more power.

Actually my car has 300+ if you want to get technical and has more top end power screaming less and in the end ive spent less to make that. Without having the open up the motor at all. And once again your wrong this isnt all about my car at all. You can make that amount of power but have you at all?..I didnt think so.

Even with a bolt-on kit how long will it last? if the motor was never built for it as opposed to a car that was born to be force induced? Better yet how much extra spent where you could have gotten something else much more and the reliability aspect. I know its not an issue with upgrades on a car that was made for it with their own kits.

Im just saying turbo or supercharged is just way better especially more than just as in your case si,si slow inspired hype. And btw acr we do corners too and do straightlines too.

And so do every other car aswell smartass it doesnt matter of wiggle lines or straighlines it depends on how much you have invested into the suspension.

I like the way the Si looks...especially in my rearview mirror and i know then they are lookin at the dual mopar spitting dragon fawkin flames! The prepare for me to slow down so that they can put on their hazards and speed up and pretend they won. I think he should go for the underdog work on it and put fear into them.

And its just my car its other cars too but if the Si lived up to that the cobalt ss puts fear into them and so does the ms6 and ms3 but they are on the more mature level

[h22sparkle]

the cobalt has recaro seat so your saying along with that the cobalt is garbage ....bullshit. Their interior is a step-up from mine a very big step-up. But hey i dont concentrate on rear windows cause i dont leave them open when im raping every Si that wants to race when they dont know what they are up against. I think that the money invested into what the op wants will determine on how far he wants to go with it. Including in the corners thats up to the car and the driver on how much they put into it too. So dont even try to pull that old saying cause thats bullshit too sorry.

[AndrewNe]

Sorry everyone but I think cobalts are ugly! The Si is sick the K series engine has tons of potential and is solid. I see too many wrx's in my town so im kinda sick of them, although the awd is sick.

[h22sparkle]

Sorry everyone but I think cobalts are ugly! The Si is sick the K series engine has tons of potential and is solid. I see too many wrx's in my town so im kinda sick of them, although the awd is sick.

They do be hookin up the wrx's around my way too Some of them even do the sti swaps Not sure if this is true or not. The k series is nice but its also expensive.

And for buying a car to throw more into it and then worrying about reliability that should be a factor or even being though about since shits being tampered with. Thats out the window period cause nothing is guaranteed. Why spend more to be slower even though it looks nice over time your gonna want more no matter what luxuries supposedly to try and fit in be a leader dont be a follower on just heresay . Get what you want try something new.

[deevergote]

The STi swap into a WRX is a bit of a waste, IMO. It's essentially the same engine. It's like pulling a perfectly good H22A1 for a Type S.

Now, drop the STi motor into THIS:

I'd be happy with that

[owequitit]

You make the comment about the rear windows that doesnt bother me because there are manual kits out there and some neons that have widnows that roll down as an option or you can leave it that way stock as is so i could care less.

But why have to roll down your own windows or modify them to go down when an Si does it for free? I would rather spend money on performance parts that making my windows not go down, and I would rather be able to roll all of them down... Funny how you dismiss your own flawed logic, don't you think?

As for the thing about pulling power no it doesnt pull power it limits it when its set at a certain voltage in the pcm timing is still the same it just gets higher in a different gear and allows more vacuum in boost to provide more power.

Blah blah blah, I am going to try and throw out jibber jabber to hide the fact that my computers have to limit my power in order for me to have traction. Define it anyway you want. Your nannies are limited the amount of power produced so you can have traction. I.E. if your engine is capable of producing 300HP and the nannies limit it, then you aren't actually getting 300HP. It doesn't matter if you use the word "limit" or "cut" or "pull." You aren't getting all 300 ponies, plain and simple. There is no ands if or buts about it, there is no negotiation, there is no interpretation, and there is no spin. You have to have a computer that changes something, to prevent your engine from producing full power and spinning your tires. Period.

Way to try to dodge the facts though.

actually my car has 300+ if you want to get technical and has more top end power screaming less and in the end ive spent less to make that. Without having the open up the motor at all. And once again your wrong this isnt all about my car at all. You can make that amount of power but have you at all?..I didnt think so.

1) Your car was used. Since Neons don't hold their value, it is easy to pick them up cheap.

2) My car is stock, yours is not. You wouldn't have gotten anywhere near that power had you not modified it. I GUARANTEE that had I put as much money into my Si, OR my Accord for that matter, I would have your power level matched, if not outright beat. But, I don't need a 300HP neon to prove how big I think my dick is. I like balance, and as such will ALWAYS sacrifice power for balance. You try to put me on the spot, but the reality is that you have had to modify your car, and I have not done so. As such, it is an invalid comparison, and you know it. You try to spin the fact that my car stock doesn't make as much power, as trying to prove that it CAN'T make as much power, which is full on bullshit and you KNOW it.

3)If it isn't about your car, then why do you keep bringing it up?

Even with a bolt-on kit how long will it last? if the motor was never built for it as opposed to a car that was born to be force induced? Better yet how much extra spent where you could have gotten something else much more and the reliability aspect. I know its not an issue with upgrades on a car that was made for it with their own kits.

Well, apparently, there are people out there pushing 300+WHP and 100K on the engines with no problem. Assuming a Neon didn't fall apart by that mileage, I would be surprised to see it substantially outlast that, judging by my past experience with Chrysler products. Oh yeah, and those cars aren't exactly babied. The better part? With the compression, they are making that power on very little boost. Of course, the high flow head, and all the other factors help that number as well.

Im just saying turbo or supercharged is just way better especially more than just as in your case si,si slow inspired hype. And btw acr we do corners too and do straightlines too.

Depends how you define better. My idea of better isn't a 300HP engine making 250HP so I don't kill the tires and can actually go somewhere.

Did you come up with that catchy little insult all by yourself? The Neon ACR is essentially a race prepped NEON. Put that thing on a track with a lowly little "race prepped" CTR and see who kicks whose ass.

And so do every other car aswell smartass it doesnt matter of wiggle lines or straighlines it depends on how much you have invested into the suspension.

I didn't have to invest in suspension to go around turns quickly.

Also, 300HP in a tight right hand 180* turn is USELESS in a FWD car. Period.

I like the way the Si looks...especially in my rearview mirror and i know then they are lookin at the dual mopar spitting dragon fawkin flames! The prepare for me to slow down so that they can put on their hazards and speed up and pretend they won. I think he should go for the underdog work on it and put fear into them.

Yeah, I quiver in fear every time I see an SRT-4. Mostly because I am wondering if the driver who thinks he is Fangio is going to cut into a lane and hit another car while they attempt to prove they own the fastest car on the road.

And I love the way the SRT-4 looks. Collecting dust for $5000 on a used car lot.

And its just my car its other cars too but if the Si lived up to that the cobalt ss puts fear into them and so does the ms6 and ms3 but they are on the more mature level

Its funny, because I really don't fear Mustang GT's, and yet, according to you I have fear of stock MS3s? PUHFUCKINGLEASE.

Funny thing is, everyone else is TRYING to talk about the 4 cars the OP wants to buy, and yet here you are running your mouth about a piece of shit nobody cares about, and was never a part of the conversation, until YOU brought it up.

P.S. Your car is so fucking FAST, I wouldn't even be able to see the flames coming out of your exhaust because my head would be spinning and you would be so far up the road, I wouldn't even be able to see your tire smoke. And yet, I would still gladly pay more money for car than yours.

Now, since we have determined that you are "leader" and the fastest thing on 4 wheels, and your PCM nanny only "limits" power, rather than "cutting" power, and you can blow any Si on the road into the weeds, and your a baller because you bought a Neon, we should have no trouble getting back to talking about the 4 cars mentioned.

[h22sparkle]

The STi swap into a WRX is a bit of a waste, IMO. It's essentially the same engine. It's like pulling a perfectly good H22A1 for a Type S.

Now, drop the STi motor into THIS:

I'd be happy with that

thanks for chimin in on that. I wouldnt know everyones different. I seen car at the racing spot 1 time that had the sti swap in it . The mazda ms3 and ms6 tonymontana has the 6 you should definitely get feedback from him he should know firsthand. As for the 3 well youll see alot of those around too.