To Boost or Not to Boost......

[Wickd_cb7]

So, im coming into some money around January '10. About 7k to be precise. My current car has a molded body kit and some super jdm ICW 17's (Please, note the sarcasm). I bought it this way, because my old car took a crap on me and i only paid 1100 dollars for it. I hate it, its ricey, I get revved at by kids in DA's with Ebay exhaust, and quite frankly I want something clean. My car is AUTO. So im not gonna waste the extra money converting to a 5spd. Theres a stock 93 EX 4 dr 5spd down the street for 1700 im thinking about buying after i get done fixing Ole' optimus prime out there in the front yard. Here are my options, as i have a honda mechanic friend who knows his S**T and will help me learn and do it for free.

Option 1
OBD1 H Swap = 800/w shipping from tiger japanese (Just motor not including anything else)...Though im not sure what tranny would be good...LSD is a must....doesnt have to come LSD either.

Option 2
F22 Single cam turbo build. People sleep the hell out of these and ive seen some SICK single cam builds on the cheap.

Option 3
And you know this was coming....G22 turbo frank. My best friend (the honda mechanic i referred too) has built 2 of these. one 400WHP other unknown I dont even think he's dropped it in anything yet. I think he said with the correct parts it would cost roughly 2500 to build (with good internals, cost of bottom end, head, replacing gaskets and seals, etc etc and so on). Plus cost of transmission.

Option 4
I drop 6k as a down payment on something newer or buy something newer for 6k. Though im not to fond of car payments and high insurance.

Keep in mind, i would want some rims and full coilovers, exhaust and so on. so it would all have to fit into a 7k budget....Whats your suggestions

[Brandoncb7]

I'd go with option 1 or 2. Either one of those would leave you with enough money to still buy some wheels and suspension and you'd have a decently quick car to start out with too. I'd probably go with the second option and go the DSM turbo route.

[deevergote]

I wouldn't buy from Tiger.

The F22A is cheap, so if you blow it up, you can replace it easily. It also has a ton of potential.

I don't trust frank swaps... but if you have a knowledgeable and experienced friend, then that makes things much better than fumbling through it yourself.




Honestly, with a little port work, the F22A head outflows the H22A head... so I'd just stick with the F22A, put a little money into rebuilding and modifying it, and putting a PROPER turbo setup on there. Don't go cheap. Do it right.

I'd say put $3000 into your motor, $2000 into your turbo setup, and $2000 into your rims, exhaust, and suspension.

[Wickd_cb7]

What about tranny work, with all that extra added power wouldnt I need some sort of transmission work + axles etc? Excuse my newbness. I will be an all knowing cb god one day...just not today lol

[deevergote]

It depends how much power you plan on putting down. I saw in another thread that you're auto, which complicates matters a bit. Auto is more difficult to tune, and most CB automatic transmissions have not been properly maintained it seems, so it won't like to handle too much extra torque. I know at least one member here that is making over 400whp on an automatic...

A manual conversion would run about $500, less if you shop smart. You may want to consider doing that. You'd also want to invest in a decent clutch... so set aside another $1000 for that stuff, I would say. If you want to boost on the auto, then find a tuner that can do it for you, and be prepared to replace it if it blows. Fortunately, Accord automatics are inexpensive, since nobody wants them!

You COULD have the auto built to handle more power, as well. There's a company in NJ called Level Ten that does decent automatic work. I pass their shop once a week for work.

Axles won't be necessary until you get to some serious power production... 350-400+ at the wheels. Even then, you could probably get away with the stock axles unless you want to launch it. Gator makes some decent axles. Last I looked, they're about $400.

I wouldn't worry about that right away. I'd shoot for a modest 250whp or so at first. If you build things properly, you can always up the boost as you add parts that can handle it. I would build the motor and install a turbo system that can handle high horsepower right from the start, though. It won't be cheap, but it'll be much cheaper than doing it twice when you want more power!

[Wickd_cb7]

My car is AUTO. So im not gonna waste the extra money converting to a 5spd. Theres a stock 93 EX 4 dr 5spd down the street for 1700 im thinking about buying after i get done fixing Ole' optimus prime out there in the front yard.

I posted that with this thread, you must of overlooked it lol. Thanks for the info deever i think im now set on the F22a build...ill post pictures of info on the build and possibly make some DIY's along the way with turbo setup as i dont see very many of those.

[h22sparkle]

Witht he amount of money investing to do it right. Thats a newer car money . Hell with the times you can get another car like a turbo car from the factory and make more power. trying to boost a non-turbo car isnt cheap. Overtime its gonna amount more than what its worth with maintenance and scheduled repair in overall costs.

[gloryaccordy]

I wouldn't buy from Tiger.

The F22A is cheap, so if you blow it up, you can replace it easily. It also has a ton of potential.

I don't trust frank swaps... but if you have a knowledgeable and experienced friend, then that makes things much better than fumbling through it yourself.




Honestly, with a little port work, the F22A head outflows the H22A head... so I'd just stick with the F22A, put a little money into rebuilding and modifying it, and putting a PROPER turbo setup on there. Don't go cheap. Do it right.

I'd say put $3000 into your motor, $2000 into your turbo setup, and $2000 into your rims, exhaust, and suspension.

Down time blows. I damn near got the F22A in my car now for free, and if I need another one I can prob get it for free straight up. But I have to wait like 1-2 weeks for my swap to get done. If I had to drive the car to work I'd be screwed.

If I could do it all again, I would have just ponied up for the H. Specifically, the H23 DOHC VTEC, with an H23 transmission and JDM H22A cams. Reliable, relatively cheap power.

[deevergote]

Witht he amount of money investing to do it right. Thats a newer car money . Hell with the times you can get another car like a turbo car from the factory and make more power. trying to boost a non-turbo car isnt cheap. Overtime its gonna amount more than what its worth with maintenance and scheduled repair in overall costs.

Eh, it depends. Cars like the SRT-4 and Mazdaspeed 3 are decent buys, but good ones are still pricey, and cheap ones are probably no more reliable than a properly built and boosted Honda. Those cars have been pounded on.

Don't forget, Mike... you did a lot more stupid shit with your CB7 than you have with the SRT-4 (and you've done your share of stupid shit with that thing, too! )

Other turbo cars in the 10k range have their issues as well... WRXs have glass transmissions, and can develop problems around 100k. Audi/VW are hit or miss... electrical issues can KILL you with those. The good turbo Nissans and Toyotas are all pretty old now, putting them not much further out of the "project car" range of a CB7. The Mazdaspeed Protege is pretty weak...



Building the F22A isn't a bad idea, and if you do it right, and treat it with respect, it will last you. Yes, you'll still have things to fix on your old car... suspension, brakes, random little things going bad here and there. The CB7 is pretty reliable, but it's old.
Of course, we're not here because we just love fast cars, or cars with potential. We're here because we actually like this particular platform!

If you just want to go fast... a domestic V8 is the cheapest way to get there. An old V8 Mustang or Camarobird can be had for the price of a built F22. For the price of a turbo kit, you can buy performance parts directly from the manufacturer's performance catalog. $10,000 would get you down the quarter mile in a Mustang or Camaro much faster than it would in a CB7.

If we ONLY wanted fast cars, there are other, better options. If we want fast CB7s, then we have a little work to do. However, these cars are capable of giving us what we want!

[PUMASTi]

No love for the Speed 6, I still think the best and most reliable route to go with is the h22. Its descent power and less headaches.

[deevergote]

No love for a $10,000 Speed 6. If you can find one that cheap, there's something wrong!

A straight H22 swap is nice... but it takes quite a bit of work to make it truly competitive anymore. 200hp at the crank in a 3000lb car is damn near what you get in a base to mid-level midsize family sedan these days! If I'm going to drop money into my car... I want it to be faster than Grandma's 2008 Accord V6!

[Maple50175]

I wouldn't buy from Tiger.

The F22A is cheap, so if you blow it up, you can replace it easily. It also has a ton of potential.

I don't trust frank swaps... but if you have a knowledgeable and experienced friend, then that makes things much better than fumbling through it yourself.




Honestly, with a little port work, the F22A head outflows the H22A head... so I'd just stick with the F22A, put a little money into rebuilding and modifying it, and putting a PROPER turbo setup on there. Don't go cheap. Do it right.

I'd say put $3000 into your motor, $2000 into your turbo setup, and $2000 into your rims, exhaust, and suspension.

Don't be a Tiger Hater.

Todd got an H22 from them and it was MINT no sluge and runs awesome

[deevergote]

Some people have had good luck. Some people have gotten broken motors.

The bottom line is, they're located in Canada. If they send you a broken motor, all you can do is hope they do the right thing and give you a new one, or a refund. Otherwise, there's not a damn thing you can do. An international lawsuit would cost far more than its worth.

www.hmotorsonline.com is the most reputable JDM engine importer. They are located in California, and in the rare occurance that they DO send a bad motor, I've never heard a single complaint about the resolution.

[Wickd_cb7]

Well, i do love the cb7 platform. they are relatively easy to work on...parts are dirt cheap compared to other cars...and they are old...so insurance costs are extremely low. Its hit and miss for me in that aspect. The honda guy i was refering too just bought an 05 STI. Its a ridiculously sick car, but the turbo already went out in it. He's already spent 4k since he got the car a month ago on upgrades, and basic ones at that. SRT-4's are nice...but, its still a neon in my eyes. EVO's are nice, but...its still a DSM. With new cars come car payments, unpaid-for cars come full coverage insurance. $$$$$$$. But i do not disagree that building a turbo accord is god awful reliable. Ive seen it done, ive seen the heartache. Its a hard decision really. But im trying to make the decision before i get money in my hand and spend on on a wimb. I suppose its really what I like. Would I rather buy an STI or Legacy GT? Sure. Can I honestly say i can afford the car payment and insurance? No. lol Well, it would depend on how much the car was etc...in any case, Im add when it comes to cars, i like alot of diff ones. But being as im a dad, 4 doors is a must. CB's are the only 4 door hondas that appeal to me, aside from a 4 door DC2...but the bug eyes kill me and JDM fronts are 5g's. As far as the turbo f22...the main reason this jumps out at me is because not only do i have a honda mechanic as a best friend. But i live in richmond, va. Tuning would goto one man...the man with a 600 hp single cam hatch. Matt shue. if anyone can reliably tune it, he would be the one to do so. To my knowledge, well built cars can blow up just like the next junk yard concoction. Its the tuning that matters with turbo hondas. So again, its a toss up...I LOVE awd turbo cars, when launched, it feels like hell is raining down on you.

[deevergote]

If the turbo on an 05 STi went out... then that car was abused. A good friend of mine has an 06, and it's in excellent condition. Of course, he searched VERY carefully for one that was taken care of.

Evos are NOT DSMs. Diamond Star Motors was only responsible for the Eclipse/Talon/Laser, and the 3000GT/Stealth. Some people accept the Galant as a "DSM", because it uses much of the same equipment as the Eclipse/Talon/Laser... but that's still technically a full Mitsubishi. The early EVOs DID use the same driveline as well... The models we got, however, were made after Mitsubishi and Chrysler dissolved that pseudo-company. The 4G63, as far as I know, has always been a full Mitsubishi product. Chrysler provided most of the low-end engines for the DSM models.

The Legacy GT ranks high among cars I'd consider... though only the newer, more powerful ones... and they aren't cheap. I make good money, and I would still hesitate to fork over the cash to buy a decent used Legacy GT.


And yes, well built cars can blow up just as easily as poorly built cars. The tune is VERY important, as is proper maintenance and careful operation. If you abuse it, or take unnecessary shortcuts... you'll probably lose it. Things do happen with quality builds as well. Even experienced builders and tuners make mistakes, and high quality brand name parts can sometimes be flawed. It happens.