How many people use their stock car speakers wires to run the front speakers?

[cloudasc]

I have my amps mounted on the rear seat, I am running 16 gauge wire from my 4way amp directly to the rear speakers (short run), then I ran 16 gauge to behind my deck (long run), and then connected it to the to stock front speaker wire via the harness adapter (short run). As far as my front speakers are concerned the amp might as well be behind my deck. (Alpine 40w RMS x 4)

The higher the gauge wire (22awg), the more resistance there is, and less distance you can run it while maintaining power levels compared to using a lower gauge wire (16awg)for the same run. The amount of loss also goes up with the more power you run, that loss is then turned into heat.

[loud92CB7]

are you sure??? i mean i have seen the ones with rcas but it was said for remote use... i know wire is wire and it connects whatever u connect but HMMMMMM

[cloudasc]

From my understanding all RCA's are grounded from end to end. Thats what the outside part of the connector is for, and it usually is connected to the braiding around the core on higher quality cables.

Edit: Found this picture:

[dksix]

Yes, years ago my buddy disregarded my lecture on wiring gauges and their limits and during a comp. the loom of speaker wires behind the head unit got hot enough for the jackets to melt, which left the exposed wires touch and shorted out his head unit. Lucky for him he took my advice on insulating the loom of wires with vinyl tape, or his entire car could have gone up in flames.

He was running an Xtant 404M at 100x4@2ohms to two sets of Rainbow (the model eludes me) components in his front doors.



This doesn't surprise me at all, and is the number one reason I never allow my friends and family to have their mobile audio/video items installed by shops that hire just anyone off of the street.

I'm not saying you're not good at what you did, but you were obviously taught to install mobile audio/video by people who didn't know what they were doing, which lead you to do it the wrong way. Even MECP certification means less today than it did years ago, but at least some of the 'better' shops require it for their installers.

I'm not trying to insult you, so I hope you don't take it that way.. but the fact of the matter is; no, you should not re-use the stock wiring when running an external amp, if you intend to run more power than the wiring can handle.

-mak

Agreed , I have found the most stock speaker wire is in the range of being 18 to 22 gauge . The AWG 20 ga wire has a conductor size of .032" and a rating of up to 11 amps . Car amps are normally rated at 14.4 volts and if you do the math 150 watts RMS at 14.4 volts ( watt/amps ) will have a current of 10.41 amps . With most speaker wires being well under 25ft in length there should be no significant increase in resistance to interrupt this math . I agree that no wire should be over powered , but I have seen many shops that had certified installers that had little to no true electrical or electronic education . 4 ga wire to run an amp the is going to have a maximum output of 400 watts RMS ???? 4 ga wire is rated at 135 amps and most automotive electrical systems work from alternators with outputs from 65 to 135 amps , that doesn't leave much for the rest of the car if you are pulling full load on 4 ga . You are correct , sir . I was never trained or certified as an MECP installer , I do however have a total of 8 semesters of electrical and/or electronic education . Granted I do now work primarily with high voltage/amperage industrial AC systems , but I'm sure that I have never installed anything that was unsafe , underwired or faulty . Before I answered his question I googled the amp in question . The information that I found rated this amp at 60Watts RMS per channel and he listed his wire to be 22 ga . If you look up the rating for 22ga wire through the AWG you will find that 22 ga wire is rated to 7 amps . Further more if you do the math as defined by OHM's law you will see the he will have a max output of 4.16 amps ( watts/volts = 60/14.4 )or a safety factor of over 60% . I'm in no way offended and I'm in 100% agreeance with you that no one should ever use wire that isn't rated for the load . It's just that most installers do not know the ratings for wire and go with "bigger is better" theory . I never used theory , but education for my guide .

[sonikaccord]

Agreed , I have found the most stock speaker wire is in the range of being 18 to 22 gauge . The AWG 20 ga wire has a conductor size of .032" and a rating of up to 11 amps . Car amps are normally rated at 14.4 volts and if you do the math 150 watts RMS at 14.4 volts ( watt/amps ) will have a current of 10.41 amps . With most speaker wires being well under 25ft in length there should be no significant increase in resistance to interrupt this math . I agree that no wire should be over powered , but I have seen many shops that had certified installers that had little to no true electrical or electronic education . 4 ga wire to run an amp the is going to have a maximum output of 400 watts RMS ???? 4 ga wire is rated at 135 amps and most automotive electrical systems work from alternators with outputs from 65 to 135 amps , that doesn't leave much for the rest of the car if you are pulling full load on 4 ga . You are correct , sir . I was never trained or certified as an MECP installer , I do however have a total of 8 semesters of electrical and/or electronic education . Granted I do now work primarily with high voltage/amperage industrial AC systems , but I'm sure that I have never installed anything that was unsafe , underwired or faulty . Before I answered his question I googled the amp in question . The information that I found rated this amp at 60Watts RMS per channel and he listed his wire to be 22 ga . If you look up the rating for 22ga wire through the AWG you will find that 22 ga wire is rated to 7 amps . Further more if you do the math as defined by OHM's law you will see the he will have a max output of 4.16 amps ( watts/volts = 60/14.4 )or a safety factor of over 60% . I'm in no way offended and I'm in 100% agreeance with you that no one should ever use wire that isn't rated for the load . It's just that most installers do not know the ratings for wire and go with "bigger is better" theory . I never used theory , but education for my guide .

Right and you have have to take in to account that music is dynamic and not just pure sine waves, therefore the amp is rarely going run at full load for long amounts of time, and it isnt going to pull max power constantly.

And I have ran 8 gauge for my old Eclipse XA1000 which was plenty. I blew a too small 30amp fuse before the wire was damaged.

[Bad_dude]

Agreed , I have found the most stock speaker wire is in the range of being 18 to 22 gauge . The AWG 20 ga wire has a conductor size of .032" and a rating of up to 11 amps . Car amps are normally rated at 14.4 volts and if you do the math 150 watts RMS at 14.4 volts ( watt/amps ) will have a current of 10.41 amps . With most speaker wires being well under 25ft in length there should be no significant increase in resistance to interrupt this math . I agree that no wire should be over powered , but I have seen many shops that had certified installers that had little to no true electrical or electronic education . 4 ga wire to run an amp the is going to have a maximum output of 400 watts RMS ???? 4 ga wire is rated at 135 amps and most automotive electrical systems work from alternators with outputs from 65 to 135 amps , that doesn't leave much for the rest of the car if you are pulling full load on 4 ga . You are correct , sir . I was never trained or certified as an MECP installer , I do however have a total of 8 semesters of electrical and/or electronic education . Granted I do now work primarily with high voltage/amperage industrial AC systems , but I'm sure that I have never installed anything that was unsafe , underwired or faulty . Before I answered his question I googled the amp in question . The information that I found rated this amp at 60Watts RMS per channel and he listed his wire to be 22 ga . If you look up the rating for 22ga wire through the AWG you will find that 22 ga wire is rated to 7 amps . Further more if you do the math as defined by OHM's law you will see the he will have a max output of 4.16 amps ( watts/volts = 60/14.4 )or a safety factor of over 60% . I'm in no way offended and I'm in 100% agreeance with you that no one should ever use wire that isn't rated for the load . It's just that most installers do not know the ratings for wire and go with "bigger is better" theory . I never used theory , but education for my guide .

So my amp is pushing less than 5 amps and the limit of the 22 gauge is far from reach. Therefore, I think it is safe to say, if the math is correct, I can just use the stock speaker wires with no problem.
Thanks,

[PENGUIN]

Agreed , I have found the most stock speaker wire is in the range of being 18 to 22 gauge . The AWG 20 ga wire has a conductor size of .032" and a rating of up to 11 amps . Car amps are normally rated at 14.4 volts and if you do the math 150 watts RMS at 14.4 volts ( watt/amps ) will have a current of 10.41 amps . With most speaker wires being well under 25ft in length there should be no significant increase in resistance to interrupt this math . I agree that no wire should be over powered , but I have seen many shops that had certified installers that had little to no true electrical or electronic education . 4 ga wire to run an amp the is going to have a maximum output of 400 watts RMS ???? 4 ga wire is rated at 135 amps and most automotive electrical systems work from alternators with outputs from 65 to 135 amps , that doesn't leave much for the rest of the car if you are pulling full load on 4 ga . You are correct , sir . I was never trained or certified as an MECP installer , I do however have a total of 8 semesters of electrical and/or electronic education . Granted I do now work primarily with high voltage/amperage industrial AC systems , but I'm sure that I have never installed anything that was unsafe , underwired or faulty . Before I answered his question I googled the amp in question . The information that I found rated this amp at 60Watts RMS per channel and he listed his wire to be 22 ga . If you look up the rating for 22ga wire through the AWG you will find that 22 ga wire is rated to 7 amps . Further more if you do the math as defined by OHM's law you will see the he will have a max output of 4.16 amps ( watts/volts = 60/14.4 )or a safety factor of over 60% . I'm in no way offended and I'm in 100% agreeance with you that no one should ever use wire that isn't rated for the load . It's just that most installers do not know the ratings for wire and go with "bigger is better" theory . I never used theory , but education for my guide .

NICE!

[dksix]

In other words, it's fine that I run the stock wires in my car right?
Thanks,

In short , Yes . If everything else in your car/system is , and YOU do everything , correct you will be fine . The misconception is in the wording of the table that has been referred to ; Chassis Wiring and Power Transmission . Power transmission is for bundled wiring such as used in transformers (inside transformers or enclosures) where internal heating can degrade the wires conduction abilities and increase resistance , not merely to move power from source to load . Chassis wiring is for free air applications ( such as the open air areas inside your car or wiring in you home ) where the wire isn't likely build up heat to the point of failure . The chart clearly states that it is very under rated this is due to the many factors that differ from one wiring project to another . I'm sure that mak's example of the buddies wires heating up are correct , using the same math 100w/14.4v would produce an amp load of 7 amps (100% of the rating) on 22 a wire , but taking into account that if this guy was using 2 set's of speakers in his doors , he probably had more amps and speakers . This would cause the charging system on the car to be loaded and make less than the 14.4 volts in the formula , if the voltage dropped to just 12 volts (100w/12v) it would create a load of 8.3 amps ( near 20% overload ) and then the wire would be over loaded , begin to heat and break down . As the wire heats it's resistance increases and there for the voltage will drop there for amperage will rise and more heat will present . That's why the break down isn't linear . Also note that if the head unit is working incorrectly and getting hot (like I've seen some do) and you run your wires up against it or heater vents to where they are getting some of that heat it could increase the likely hood that the wire will fail . I've seen this also , but it was not fault of the load involved . It was because of poor installation practices . Mak is also right , most places hire anyone that will work for the wage ( big national chains ) and rely on them doing plug and play head unit and speaker installs . I've had many nice cars come to me for repair ( especially German cars with external faders ) of installs by incompetent installers that didn't have any understanding of how electricity or electronics worked . And mak , since my training was called into question , may I ask where you came up with the factor of 14 you used in your statement "Take the "Maximum amps for
power transmission" and multiply it by 14 for the maximum 'safe' power transmission for that given gauge of wire" ?

[90Haccord]

are you sure??? i mean i have seen the ones with rcas but it was said for remote use... i know wire is wire and it connects whatever u connect but HMMMMMM

I don't know about him.

But I know the wire "in between RCA's" on some RCA sets, IS INDEED for remote turn on. I have several sets in my car and have the original packaging from years ago, they say "featuring a new integrated REMOTE TURN ON WIRE for amplifier". Rockford Fosgate RCA's. Mine have been that way for well over 10 yrs, not a problem at all.

[Bad_dude]

Well, I got lazy so I am going to wire the back speaker wires to the front and the new wires for the back speakers. Everything will be in the trunk.

[TomQuick]

dksix, finally the voice of reason. Ohm's law doesn't lie!

Bad_dude, one word of caution: When you're using the rear wires to carry the power up to the front wires, you're making a much longer circuit length of that thin factory wiring, and that increase in length will decrease the power handling ability of that wiring. If your amp is putting out more than perhaps 30 watts / channel, I would at least consider running a heavier gauge wire (perhaps 16) from the amp to the center console, and tap into the factory wire there for the doors. That keeps the run of factory wiring down to less than 10' per door.

[cloudasc]

dksix, finally the voice of reason. Ohm's law doesn't lie!

Bad_dude, one word of caution: When you're using the rear wires to carry the power up to the front wires, you're making a much longer circuit length of that thin factory wiring, and that increase in length will decrease the power handling ability of that wiring. If your amp is putting out more than perhaps 30 watts / channel, I would at least consider running a heavier gauge wire (perhaps 16) from the amp to the center console, and tap into the factory wire there for the doors. That keeps the run of factory wiring down to less than 10' per door.

^^ This is exactly how I wired my front speakers to my amp on the backseat. Ohms law doesn't lie.

[sonikaccord]

dksix, finally the voice of reason. Ohm's law doesn't lie!

Bad_dude, one word of caution: When you're using the rear wires to carry the power up to the front wires, you're making a much longer circuit length of that thin factory wiring, and that increase in length will decrease the power handling ability of that wiring. If your amp is putting out more than perhaps 30 watts / channel, I would at least consider running a heavier gauge wire (perhaps 16) from the amp to the center console, and tap into the factory wire there for the doors. That keeps the run of factory wiring down to less than 10' per door.

lol 30 watts?? The stock wiring can handle more than that with minimal loss. That's more work than what's really necessary. He's fine with the stock wire.

[plee3]

^^ This is exactly how I wired my front speakers to my amp on the backseat. Ohms law doesn't lie.

^^True^^
an increace in resistance is a decreace in power. Tapping front to rear does increase the length of the wire but not to a point where it would decreace the power. You would have to have like a mile of wire for the power to decreace.

[darkfusion42]

^^True^^
an increace in resistance is a decreace in power. Tapping front to rear does increase the length of the wire but not to a point where it would decreace the power. You would have to have like a mile of wire for the power to decreace.

This can easily be tested with a meter

testing at the amp, ran all the way to the front then to speakers, in my experience, barely causes an increase of .3 ohms. Maybe.

And in the Speed Wire we sell (look it up through Metra, they make it) the Blue wire bundled with the speaker wires is remote turn on. A wire that size is doubtful to produce enough electrical interference to cause noise.

And oddly, the wire Metra uses for this speaker wire is 18-20 gauge I believe. They seem to think this is sufficient....

So should you.