Is the tire Man right or wrong

[evil_demon_01]

not necessarily, i personally know more people who daily their cars at the "photoshoot stance" than who change their height/camber every meet

its really not as unsafe as people to an extent but if you are putting 185/50 tires on a 10 inch wide rim then yes i will agree that it is unsafe

I'm pretty sure Wildbill means the people that have so much camber, its ONLY riding on the inner edge.

If you "know more people who daily their cars at the "photoshoot stance""

Then:
1) They MUST have a shit load of money for tyres, (even if they took them off and used the other side they would get a max of 500k per tyre)
2) They don't care for any form of actual vehicle handling / driveability
3) They don't care for the safety of other road users.

Either that or, "Yours and their" definition of "Photoshoot stance" is totally different to everyone else.

[wolfy47]

I'm pretty sure Wildbill means the people that have so much camber, its ONLY riding on the inner edge.

If you "know more people who daily their cars at the "photoshoot stance""

Then:
1) They MUST have a shit load of money for tyres, (even if they took them off and used the other side they would get a max of 500k per tyre)
2) They don't care for any form of actual vehicle handling / driveability
3) They don't care for the safety of other road users.

Either that or, "Yours and their" definition of "Photoshoot stance" is totally different to everyone else.

1. Can be solved with setting toe to 0 all around since that is the main contribute to wear...on my old 5th gen accord i had -3 degrees all around and never had a wear problem once i fixed my toe problem, I also know quiet a few 5th gens who are running -5 degrees who also dont have wear problems and dont go through tires like crazy because they fix toe
2. Some people really dont care much about driveability/or handling and do care more about looks but it really doesnt compromise it as much as you think being that our cars dont have M3 handling in the first place
3. Like I said safety isnt really compromised much given that the stretch isnt to intense...as an example to show how not unsafe it is, most double duty drift cars do run stretched tires...if going sideways on a 205/40 street tire on a 9.5 with -3 degrees camber doesnt rip the tire off while doing 45-60+ than it doesnt seem like its as unsafe as you make it seem

also im pretty sure you know who nimo is...i personally know him and he would daily his old 5th gen 80-100+ miles a day to and for work exactly how it was in all of his pictures..he was one of many who would drive his car in photoshoot stance

picture of nimos car in daily driver/photoshoot STATIC (meaning he was on coilovers not bags) stance


picture for reference for drift car

[evil_demon_01]

1. Can be solved with setting toe to 0 all around since that is the main contribute to wear...on my old 5th gen accord i had -3 degrees all around and never had a wear problem once i fixed my toe problem, I also know quiet a few 5th gens who are running -5 degrees who also dont have wear problems and dont go through tires like crazy because they fix toe
2. Some people really dont care much about driveability/or handling and do care more about looks but it really doesnt compromise it as much as you think being that our cars dont have M3 handling in the first place
3. Like I said safety isnt really compromised much given that the stretch isnt to intense...as an example to show how not unsafe it is, most double duty drift cars do run stretched tires...if going sideways on a 205/40 street tire on a 9.5 with -3 degrees camber doesnt rip the tire off while doing 45-60+ than it doesnt seem like its as unsafe as you make it seem

also im pretty sure you know who nimo is...i personally know him and he would daily his old 5th gen 80-100+ miles a day to and for work exactly how it was in all of his pictures..he was one of many who would drive his car in photoshoot stance

picture of nimos car in daily driver/photoshoot STATIC (meaning he was on coilovers not bags) stance

I have no Idea who "nimo" is, nor do I know him.

Tell me, How long do you think the tyres will last, or how it handles? On the below picture (which was already mentioned in this thread, and is clearly in photoshoot mode)

[wolfy47]

I have no Idea who "nimo" is, nor do I know him.

Tell me, How long do you think the tyres will last, or how it handles? On the below picture (which was already mentioned in this thread, and is clearly in photoshoot mode)

It doesnt matter if you know nimo or not..the picture of his car is right there if anyone is proof that tire wear is cause by toe he is since that was the car that he not only drove to work but drove for work and would rack up more miles in that thing as is on his 225/40 on 10 inch wide wheels with -4 - -5 degree camber in a month than most people would do 3 months and he wasnt buying tires like you make it seem

Like i said if you set toe to all around tire wear is greatly reduced...and like i said not everyone is aiming to have a "race car" people have different tastes...i have driven cars that low and the only thing you have to worry about is the occasional dip or speed bump

A way to solve your handling fear that you keep bring up can be solved with stiffer spring rates just like what was done on that odyssey if you read up the article on it

edit: here is a article all the way back from 07 from honda tuning mag itself proving that toe is the major killer in tires (just so you know im not saying that camber doesnt contribute to wear but toe adjustment makes a huge difference no matter the camber and it can greatly increase tire life compared to even oem spec on toe)
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...e/viewall.html

[Straight Success]

I have no Idea who "nimo" is, nor do I know him.

Tell me, How long do you think the tyres will last, or how it handles? On the below picture (which was already mentioned in this thread, and is clearly in photoshoot mode)

Not long at all. No where near the warrenty life of the tire. I'm going to take an educated guess and say 10% of the warrenty life.

[wolfy47]

Not long at all. No where near the warrenty life of the tire. I'm going to take an educated guess and say 10% of the warrenty life.

^^this is my point...you just took a GUESS

educated or not its still a guess

while i have experience in this region and have more than half my friends are rolling in this "photoshoot stance" you guys keep talking about

a majority of 5th gens and up to the newest gens get it, understand it, and do it but it always seemed like a majority of the 4th gens are the only generation who dont get it and are living in the 90's when it comes to suspension tech

be a pioneer and check out a couple 5th gens since they are basically direct cousins

[evil_demon_01]

It doesnt matter if you know nimo or not..the picture of his car is right there if anyone is proof that tire wear is cause by toe he is since that was the car that he not only drove to work but drove for work and would rack up more miles in that thing as is on his 225/40 on 10 inch wide wheels with -4 - -5 degree camber in a month than most people would do 3 months and he wasnt buying tires like you make it seem

Like i said if you set toe to all around tire wear is greatly reduced...and like i said not everyone is aiming to have a "race car" people have different tastes...i have driven cars that low and the only thing you have to worry about is the occasional dip or speed bump

A way to solve your handling fear that you keep bring up can be solved with stiffer spring rates just like what was done on that odyssey if you read up the article on it

edit: here is a article all the way back from 07 from honda tuning mag itself proving that toe is the major killer in tires (just so you know im not saying that camber doesnt contribute to wear but toe adjustment makes a huge difference no matter the camber and it can greatly increase tire life compared to even oem spec on toe)
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...e/viewall.html

I still fail to understand your overall point.
Everyone knows toes creates excessive tyre wear - So what?

That picture of the Odyssey has a smaller contact patch than the original wheels.
And its riding the inner edge, which toe or not, is going to wear the tyres, at a faster rate.

[dj_ender]

1. Can be solved with setting toe to 0 all around since that is the main contribute to wear...on my old 5th gen accord i had -3 degrees all around and never had a wear problem once i fixed my toe problem, I also know quiet a few 5th gens who are running -5 degrees who also dont have wear problems and dont go through tires like crazy because they fix toe
2. Some people really dont care much about driveability/or handling and do care more about looks but it really doesnt compromise it as much as you think being that our cars dont have M3 handling in the first place
3. Like I said safety isnt really compromised much given that the stretch isnt to intense...as an example to show how not unsafe it is, most double duty drift cars do run stretched tires...if going sideways on a 205/40 street tire on a 9.5 with -3 degrees camber doesnt rip the tire off while doing 45-60+ than it doesnt seem like its as unsafe as you make it seem

also im pretty sure you know who nimo is...i personally know him and he would daily his old 5th gen 80-100+ miles a day to and for work exactly how it was in all of his pictures..he was one of many who would drive his car in photoshoot stance.

I'm sorry, I have -2.9 degrees and I have tire wear, and yes my toe is in spec. This is after 6 months of no rotation:

[wolfy47]

And its riding the inner edge, which toe or not, is going to wear the tyres, at a faster rate.

i am not saying that it wont wear at a faster rate because it will but no where near what you guys are making it seem...i am saying that with a change of toe setting the life of the tire can be expanded greatly

also a thing alot of people who run camber will do is run the tread down low then then simply flip the tire on the rim like you would on a car with staggered rims/tires which means the part of the tire you are now riding on is 100% or so, meaning you essentially doubled the life of your tire (flipping a tire isnt a expensive procedure neither, a shop near by would remove, reinstall, and rebalance for $5 a wheel)

even without flipping the tires you can achieve way more than 10% of the warranty life of a tire

I'm sorry, I have -2.9 degrees and I have tire wear, and yes my toe is in spec. This is after 6 months or no rotation

the magic number for negative camber on a track car is right around -2 - -2.5 degrees so you not that off

personally on my old accord i was running -3 all around with no wear problems what so ever

which brings me to my one question is that within oem toe spec or within custom toe specs that i brought up earlier???

[dj_ender]

i am not saying that it wont wear at a faster rate because it will but no where near what you guys are making it seem...i am saying that with a change of toe setting the life of the tire can be expanded greatly

also a thing alot of people who run camber will do is run the tread down low then then simply flip the tire on the rim like you would on a car with staggered rims/tires which means the part of the tire you are now riding on is 100% or so, meaning you essentially doubled the life of your tire (flipping a tire isnt a expensive procedure neither, a shop near by would remove, reinstall, and rebalance for $5 a wheel)

even without flipping the tires you can achieve way more than 10% of the warranty life of a tire.

the magic number for negative camber on a track car is right around -2 - -2.5 degrees so you not that off

personally on my old accord i was running -3 all around with no wear problems what so ever

which brings me to my one question is that within oem toe spec or within custom toe specs that i brought up earlier???

OEM specs.

[Straight Success]

I'm going to say, Wolfy47, you've never analyzed a tire under extreme frictional forces. That's what a tire experiences at a high camber angle. The excess friction created from the ground is what kills the tires. Not forgetting to mention the rolling resistance (especially upon turning) is now spread over a smaller patch which takes all the load that the entire width of the tire was once subjected to. Also, the added stress (which you can't see) on the suspenion/rims/tire components makes driviing like that unsafe. Don't believe me, have someone perform a static loading test/simulation (not even a dynamic one (which would show you higher stress levels), and leaving out hitting pot holes, road debris, etc.) on a car with stock specs, and then do the same with the hella flush trend. You'll be amazed.

[wolfy47]

OEM specs.

there is your problem...if you do decide to keep you camber as is next time you get an alignment set the toe to 0 all around that will fix your wear problems

if the shop says they cant do anything other than oem specs or that they want to charge you more for custom specs than they are full of it and i suggest that you find another shop...i have used computerized alignment at school with no experience on it what so ever and it is literally one one of the easiest things to do to a car (given you have access to a machine), i also have a friend who was able to have the same experience as me and he agrees on the easiness and he has very little mechanical experience.

on the computers you can literally enter in your goal of a spec and it beeps just like it would normally

[wolfy47]

Don't believe me, have someone perform a static loading test/simulation (not even a dynamic one (which would show you higher stress levels), and leaving out hitting pot holes, road debris, etc.) on a car with stock specs, and then do the same with the hella flush trend. You'll be amazed.

i would believe you but the reasons why i dont is because you are talking about tests and simulations which isnt real life

when in real life there are people who drift and road race on streched tires with massive amounts of camber and for the majority they come out just fine

did you know that the first J32 swapped in a cd chassis is on stretched tires
and that his secondary car h22 cd is also on stretched tires (235/40 on 10.5's with about -4 or -5 if i remember) and both cars are raced and daily driven and the h22 was raced at a track with those specs

the first k24 swapped accord is also on streched tires and cambered and he does a lot of caynon runs

all these cars are great examples that disprove your testing since they see more abuse than your normal run of the mill daily drivers

[Straight Success]

i would believe you but the reasons why i dont is because you are talking about tests and simulations which isnt real life

when in real life there are people who drift and road race on streched tires with massive amounts of camber and for the majority they come out just fine

did you know that the first J32 swapped in a cd chassis is on stretched tires
and that his secondary car h22 cd is also on stretched tires (235/40 on 10.5's with about -4 or -5 if i remember) and both cars are raced and daily driven and the h22 was raced at a track with those specs

the first k24 swapped accord is also on streched tires and cambered and he does a lot of caynon runs

all these cars are great examples that disprove your testing since they see more abuse than your normal run of the mill daily drivers

You gotta be kidding me right? You can't be serious. You just basically told me that what I do isn't relevant to the world. I super beg to differ.

That's what I speciaalize in, and after one more class, I'll be doing that for one of the biggest car manufactures on this side of the planet. I'm done with this conversation. I'll sit back and read.

BTW, some food for thought, there are members here with expertiese in certain fields. Mine is in deign/mechanical enginnering. Basically a design engineer that can and currently is engineering a car from scratch. I'll enlighten you in May with the finished product if you're still around.

[wildBill83]

wolfy47, your logic is incorrect. I suggest you do more research. I can really tear apart each of your posts and tell you how far off base you are, but I really don't have the time to. Why don't you start a thread with your "ideas" in it and I'll clear the air in there.

Just two I got a chuckle out of:

also a thing alot of people who run camber will do is run the tread down low then then simply flip the tire on the rim like you would on a car with staggered rims/tires which means the part of the tire you are now riding on is 100% or so, meaning you essentially doubled the life of your tire

By the way, if you only get 10% of life on riding on the side wall, then flip the tire, you still get just another 10% of life. 20% falls far short of 200%...

OEM specs.

there is your problem...if you do decide to keep you camber as is next time you get an alignment set the toe to 0 all around that will fix your wear problems

I am pretty sure OEM spec is 0 toe...

But I'm going to stop there, but if you want to keep persuing your flawed logic I'll play along.