srt-4 vs. cb7H22A

[owequitit]

an srt4 that just got smoke by a 4 door accord.ha ha ha.

LOL!

It could also be a 4 door Accord that got smoked by an SRT-4.

[deevergote]

One of the reasons I'm not impressed by many of the factory "performance" cars is that they come from the low-end models. The Civic Si is a Civic. The SRT-4 is a Neon, and soon it will be a Caliber. The WRX, and even the STi, are nothing but Imprezas. Evo = Lancer. All of those are cars that I wouldn't ever want in normal trim... which means that when the novelty of the power wears off, I'm left with nothing but a faster version of a crap car.

The 6 speed Accord V6 is sporty and powerful, and a more luxurious car than the Civic. I'd rather have that. The Legacy GT is nearly as fast as the STi, but it's a far nicer car.

You can put a powerful motor in any shitbox and make it fast. I could drop a V8 into a Chevette and blow the doors off of an SRT-4 easily. It doesn't mean the Chevette is the better car! Give me a REAL car... I don't need 11 seconds if everything surrounding the engine is crap.

[jhondayaaj]

LOL!

It could also be a 4 door Accord that got smoked by an SRT-4.

yes indeed. I wasn't trying to start anything bad or anything. I was really referring to my nephew. believe me, I have seen plenty of srt4's that may blow my homies car away. but there are also a lot of srt4 owner's that think their cars are fast because they have a turboed neon with a fat ass front mount like my nephew for example. I remember the first srt4 that cb7extreme smoked. that neon, I mean srt4, owner said to my homie that he's never lost to Honda before, and that guy hit up my homie. what happened next?? the same thing that happened to my nephew. I apologize if I've caused any anger or misunderstanding. last but not least, my nephew still got worked by a 4 door accord.

[owequitit]

yes indeed. I wasn't trying to start anything bad or anything. I was really referring to my nephew. believe me, I have seen plenty of srt4's that may blow my homies car away. but there are also a lot of srt4 owner's that think their cars are fast because they have a turboed neon with a fat ass front mount like my nephew for example. I remember the first srt4 that cb7extreme smoked. that neon, I mean srt4, owner said to my homie that he's never lost to Honda before, and that guy hit up my homie. what happened next?? the same thing that happened to my nephew. I apologize if I've caused any anger or misunderstanding. last but not least, my nephew still got worked by a 4 door accord.

I know. I was just giving you crap! LOL!

Any car can be fast with the right effort, and work.

[owequitit]

One of the reasons I'm not impressed by many of the factory "performance" cars is that they come from the low-end models. The Civic Si is a Civic. The SRT-4 is a Neon, and soon it will be a Caliber. The WRX, and even the STi, are nothing but Imprezas. Evo = Lancer. All of those are cars that I wouldn't ever want in normal trim... which means that when the novelty of the power wears off, I'm left with nothing but a faster version of a crap car.

The 6 speed Accord V6 is sporty and powerful, and a more luxurious car than the Civic. I'd rather have that. The Legacy GT is nearly as fast as the STi, but it's a far nicer car.

You can put a powerful motor in any shitbox and make it fast. I could drop a V8 into a Chevette and blow the doors off of an SRT-4 easily. It doesn't mean the Chevette is the better car! Give me a REAL car... I don't need 11 seconds if everything surrounding the engine is crap.

Not all entry level cars are created equal though.

Also, demographically, most of these types of cars are purchased by young males, so something in the 30K range would be inaccessible.

Also, the fact that the entry level cars are usually smaller and lighter pays some dividends dynamically too.

I agree with every car you mentioned though.

I would rather have the V6 6speed, the Legacy GT, or any number of other cars too.

[texasvtak]

Evo = Lancer.

But really, the evo has so little in common with the base Lancer its a stretch to call them the same car. You cant even swap tail lights.

[AccordWarrior]

One of the reasons I'm not impressed by many of the factory "performance" cars is that they come from the low-end models. The Civic Si is a Civic. The SRT-4 is a Neon, and soon it will be a Caliber. The WRX, and even the STi, are nothing but Imprezas. Evo = Lancer. All of those are cars that I wouldn't ever want in normal trim... which means that when the novelty of the power wears off, I'm left with nothing but a faster version of a crap car.

I know we've discussed this before, but it's still flawed logic. Saying a car is "just" another car...it's shorting it.

What's a TSX? It's "just" an Accord right? The TL, "just" an Accord as well if you consider it to be an Inspire.

The STi is a faster car, correct. It's also far superior when it comes to handling, braking, and other elements of the car. What's the difference between modding every component on an Accord (it's just an Accord, right?) than having something like the STI where every system in the car has been improved.

How far up the ladder do we have to go before we're out of the "crap" car range? The WRX and Legacy are all but on the same platform now with the 08 WRX. So using that logic the LGT is crap since it's a platform mate of the Impreza. The VQ motor from the G35 is in a bunch of cars in Nissan's range. Does the fact that the Altima and G35 share a motor series diminish the allure of the G35?

Most every cool factory performance car is STILL a redone version of a basic car.

Your GTP is just a supercharged version of your basic run of the mill Grand Prix. Have you seen the Grande Prix SE? You can use that arguement on ANY car that is out there, short of some of the higher end cars. You told me you wouldn't buy an A4 because it's "JUST" a VW Jetta. So does that mean that you wouldn't buy a Lamborghini because it shares technology with Audi and VW? Why buy an M3 when it's based on the lowly 3 series, which is the base model in BMW's lineup?

If you want to use this arguement, then you might as well discount the Mustang, Grand National, Typhoon, Chevelle, GTO, ITR, CTR, Cosworth Escort, etc etc, as they're just lower cars made more fun.

Sorry for the rant, and I'm only using your argument to make my point. Every car has to start somewhere.

[mozzandherb]

I have to agree that a srt-4 is not just a neon or that an sti is a wrx. Obviously they have their similarities, but all in all they are completly different cars. So what would you call a Type R? There are base models, but in the end there is a huge difference between a GSR or ITR teg or Civics for that matter.

[h22sparkle]

I have to agree that a srt-4 is not just a neon or that an sti is a wrx. Obviously they have their similarities, but all in all they are completly different cars. So what would you call a Type R? There are base models, but in the end there is a huge difference between a GSR or ITR teg or Civics for that matter.

true

[dwnhillCB791]

Nice kill man hope to see you at next so cal meet. This race was off the line right? Cus maybe the srt might have gotten you on a roll(only w/0 nos).

[deevergote]

I know we've discussed this before, but it's still flawed logic. Saying a car is "just" another car...it's shorting it.

What's a TSX? It's "just" an Accord right? The TL, "just" an Accord as well if you consider it to be an Inspire.

The STi is a faster car, correct. It's also far superior when it comes to handling, braking, and other elements of the car. What's the difference between modding every component on an Accord (it's just an Accord, right?) than having something like the STI where every system in the car has been improved.

How far up the ladder do we have to go before we're out of the "crap" car range? The WRX and Legacy are all but on the same platform now with the 08 WRX. So using that logic the LGT is crap since it's a platform mate of the Impreza. The VQ motor from the G35 is in a bunch of cars in Nissan's range. Does the fact that the Altima and G35 share a motor series diminish the allure of the G35?

Most every cool factory performance car is STILL a redone version of a basic car.

Your GTP is just a supercharged version of your basic run of the mill Grand Prix. Have you seen the Grande Prix SE? You can use that arguement on ANY car that is out there, short of some of the higher end cars. You told me you wouldn't buy an A4 because it's "JUST" a VW Jetta. So does that mean that you wouldn't buy a Lamborghini because it shares technology with Audi and VW? Why buy an M3 when it's based on the lowly 3 series, which is the base model in BMW's lineup?

If you want to use this arguement, then you might as well discount the Mustang, Grand National, Typhoon, Chevelle, GTO, ITR, CTR, Cosworth Escort, etc etc, as they're just lower cars made more fun.

Sorry for the rant, and I'm only using your argument to make my point. Every car has to start somewhere.

I can only argue so much in that logic... so I'll pick on the one part that I can pick on

The Mustang is a sports car. It has low-end models, but the soul of the line is the GT. The V8 model (yes, perhaps they sell more of the V6s, but the V6 was made to sell cheaper Mustangs to people who just want the look, not the performance). It's a high-end model in its class, with low-end variants. The Civic Type R, conversely is just a souped up version of a low-end.

I know it's a stretch to call an STi or Evo JUST an Impreza or Lancer. I mean, the Lancer is FWD, the Evo is AWD. The Impreza, until recent years, was also FWD. Both base cars are non-turbo. Suspension, drivetrain, engine, and aesthetics are different. Still, the soul of the car lies in the lowest model in the lineup.



For example, if GM wanted to release a lightweight, turbocharged performance car using a high-revving 3 cylinder engine in a tiny hatchback, would you buy it for $22,000? Say it made 250hp, and weighed in at 1900lbs. Say it was the Geo Metro Turbo. High-end performance machine? Or souped up turd? Granted, NONE of the base models (even the neon) are comparable in shittiness to the Metro... but it's an extreme example of my point.



The Legacy, even though it now shares the same platform as the Impreza, is still the "better" car. It's a step up. Compare the base Legacy to the base Impreza, and the Legacy is just a nicer car. Not aimed solely at people with a low price as their top priority.

The Grand Prix is an upper model for Pontiac. I considered the Bonneville SSEi, which has the same motor, and is the top of the line... gas mileage kept me from that, though, as it's a heavier car. If I had the options of a Grand Am GTP or Sunfire GTP, I'd have passed.





Put a bunch of great stuff on a shitbox, you have just that... a bunch of great stuff on a shitbox. Throw the best suspension, wheels, tires, engine transmission, seats, whatever.. into an EF hatch, and you still have an EF hatch. I'd rather have those things in an Accord (and for the TSX and TL being "just" Accords, I'm fine with that... because they aren't Civics )

[Djmoua]

haha nicely said Deev

[AccordWarrior]

I can only argue so much in that logic... so I'll pick on the one part that I can pick on

The Mustang is a sports car. It has low-end models, but the soul of the line is the GT. The V8 model (yes, perhaps they sell more of the V6s, but the V6 was made to sell cheaper Mustangs to people who just want the look, not the performance). It's a high-end model in its class, with low-end variants. The Civic Type R, conversely is just a souped up version of a low-end.

I know it's a stretch to call an STi or Evo JUST an Impreza or Lancer. I mean, the Lancer is FWD, the Evo is AWD. The Impreza, until recent years, was also FWD. Both base cars are non-turbo. Suspension, drivetrain, engine, and aesthetics are different. Still, the soul of the car lies in the lowest model in the lineup.



For example, if GM wanted to release a lightweight, turbocharged performance car using a high-revving 3 cylinder engine in a tiny hatchback, would you buy it for $22,000? Say it made 250hp, and weighed in at 1900lbs. Say it was the Geo Metro Turbo. High-end performance machine? Or souped up turd? Granted, NONE of the base models (even the neon) are comparable in shittiness to the Metro... but it's an extreme example of my point.



The Legacy, even though it now shares the same platform as the Impreza, is still the "better" car. It's a step up. Compare the base Legacy to the base Impreza, and the Legacy is just a nicer car. Not aimed solely at people with a low price as their top priority.

The Grand Prix is an upper model for Pontiac. I considered the Bonneville SSEi, which has the same motor, and is the top of the line... gas mileage kept me from that, though, as it's a heavier car. If I had the options of a Grand Am GTP or Sunfire GTP, I'd have passed.





Put a bunch of great stuff on a shitbox, you have just that... a bunch of great stuff on a shitbox. Throw the best suspension, wheels, tires, engine transmission, seats, whatever.. into an EF hatch, and you still have an EF hatch. I'd rather have those things in an Accord (and for the TSX and TL being "just" Accords, I'm fine with that... because they aren't Civics )

I'll counter with this. Up until the newest version of the Mustang, one could trace the Fox platform back to the 1978 Ford Fairmont...not exactly a stellar car. It was still big motor/big power over anything else. Mustangs were not renown for their interior quality. The original model was based off the Ford Falcon...to the point it was just a rebody. It wasn't even powerful in the early years.

Yes, the Impreza is the low end car on Subaru's lineup, but it was always available with AWD.

I dunno...I just feel like the "just a xxx" is a weak excuse to dismiss ANY car.

Let me ask you this Mike...how many times have you giggled when you beat a faster car knowing that in the driver's head, he was beat by "just an Accord"?

It's the same concept really. You say why put 20K into an EF...why put 20K into a CB? The same 20K into a EF would be faster than that much into a CB. Civic/Accord...it all sorta blends together in the mid 90's Honda. My friends Si hatch was just as nice as my Accord on the inside. So does that mean an ITR is a shit box with a lot of nice stuff on it since it was sourced from the Civic? I'd beg to differ.

It's just a weird level of elitism I guess that I can't get my head around lol. Probably because I'm apparently the only person in the world that likes Civics, and would probably be looking into SRT4's if they were still made.

[owequitit]

I have to agree with AW.

Just because the car may have base models, does not mean that the higher level versions are not better cars, or not capable.

I understand what Deev is saying in that he typically would rather lose the tiny bit of extra performance, for the extra bit of luxury and style i.e. the STi vs the Legacy GT.

I am the same way.

But the way he phrased it was an unsubstantiated elitist remark.

I challenge anyone to take an M3 to the track and call it a souped up version of a crap car.

Even though the base 3 series is available with cloth interior, and an engine that will result in stompings from Accords and Camrys.

[Accord R33]

the ITR is "just and Integra"


It just happens to do Nurburgring in 8:45 :-)