Lost to an SRT-4... nearly blew my motor.

[deevergote]

Actually, the 4G63 is a bolt in for the 1st gen Elantra and Sonata. The Excel requires some modification (1st gen is pretty tough, 2nd is a bit easier). I was dead set on having a 4G63t Hyundai for a while... I'd still like it. The Excel was my first choice, because it's so insanely light.

[CB7Perfection]

ooo thoughts are being sprung up

[deevergote]

4G63t into an early 90s Elantra is about the same as a 200hp turbo motor in a Civic... only the 4G63 is still STOCK And capable of MUCH more. It's an insane swap. Unfortunately, the rest of the aftermarket support for Hyundais is pretty weak. If you want a good drag car, that's a good choice. The CB7's aftermarket for suspension, body, etc... is SO much better than that of the old Hyundais.

[owequitit]

4G63t into an early 90s Elantra is about the same as a 200hp turbo motor in a Civic... only the 4G63 is still STOCK And capable of MUCH more. It's an insane swap. Unfortunately, the rest of the aftermarket support for Hyundais is pretty weak. If you want a good drag car, that's a good choice. The CB7's aftermarket for suspension, body, etc... is SO much better than that of the old Hyundais.

Come to think of it, maybe it was the Elantra I was thinking about... yeah you are probably right. Whatever was featured in SCC a few years back. A little white 4 door... must have been the Elantra.

Anyhoo, it would be a fun little car, I am just not a DSM fan, because everyone I have ever known anybody to deal with had trouble not BLOWING UP!

Ray was messing with a guy in his Accord in a stock Talon or Eclipse, and when Ray actually got on it, and the guy in the DSM did to, he lasted for about 5 seconds and the car BLEW UP!

Reliability is a key for me.

[deevergote]

The car in SCC was actually an Excel... a custom shop installed that guy's motor, and the article made it seem like cake. It's not... at least not compared to the Elantra or Sonata (both of which had 4G63, or a variant, in them). The Excel requires some mount fabrication to fit the 4G63.

The 4G63 IS a very reliable motor. However, when you get a factory turbocharged motor (especially one powered by a high heat/backpressure turbo like the 14b or t25) that's had 10-15 years of abuse, you're going to have issues. DSMs are quite inexpensive, making them availible to people that don't know much or care much about how things work. They have great potential, decent looks, and a reputation for easy power. That's another reason why I didn't want to go with the 4G63. The motor is good, but the history of just about all of them is less than acceptable.

[owequitit]

The car in SCC was actually an Excel... a custom shop installed that guy's motor, and the article made it seem like cake. It's not... at least not compared to the Elantra or Sonata (both of which had 4G63, or a variant, in them). The Excel requires some mount fabrication to fit the 4G63.

The 4G63 IS a very reliable motor. However, when you get a factory turbocharged motor (especially one powered by a high heat/backpressure turbo like the 14b or t25) that's had 10-15 years of abuse, you're going to have issues. DSMs are quite inexpensive, making them availible to people that don't know much or care much about how things work. They have great potential, decent looks, and a reputation for easy power. That's another reason why I didn't want to go with the 4G63. The motor is good, but the history of just about all of them is less than acceptable.

Not really. I have seen a few with the potential to not blow up, but they are in the vast minority IMO.

I have known people who built them all new, and "upgraded everything." These weren't cars that had 15 years of abuse anymore... or may not have to begin with. If left completely stock, they are OK, but still not great.

They even tried to attack them from a reliability standpoint. Some of those blew up. Some didn't. Some blew up more than once. A lot of these guys are big DSM guys and do know what they are doing, or at least claim to. In regards to other cars, they seemed ok.

Unfortunately, the 4g63 is tough, but a lot of the other stuff that Mitsubishi put on them doesn't seem to be. The tensioner for instance...

I am not bagging, I used to really want a GS-T or a GSX, but couldn't deal with the potential for trouble.

Scott

It has been my experience though, that you are more likely to have tranny failures than engine failures, but still. The whole thing should not blow up. That is why I like Hondas.

[deevergote]

Hondas do seem to put up with more abuse than most... That's one thing that makes them so great for beginners. You can really screw up (this thread is a perfect example) and live to tell another day!

I remember fizzbob7 telling a story about how his brother took his FD out for a ride, misshifted 3rd, and fried the tranny.

[owequitit]

Sorry just saw the second part of your post...

It is weird that with such a strong engine they have such a bad history. I could never quite figure that out either.

As for Honda's, I have seen too many come through with multiple holes in the block, rods missing (I mean they literally vanished), pistons cocked sideways in the bore, ran out of oil (one had the balance shaft seal walk out, it had 2 holes in the block from the rod it threw, and the peice of the rod that I recovered got so hot that it started to melt...and it STILL RAN. Not well mind you, but it would start and run without any aid.

I use that rod as a paperweight LOL!

I know that Honda's last because at 200HP they are built for 300-400. Everything from the tranny to the crankshaft. Believe it or not, they also keep things relatively simple. And they don't chinze on details like vacuum lines. I find good intact lines all the time in the junkyards, where a lot of companies have started using that real cheap plastic tubing that gets brittle and breaks.

Toyota's in my experience aren't as overbuilt, and they don't seem to last like they used to. I am not sure why, but they have never caught my interest.

I think it is funny to hear people complain that their Accord is falling apart because the main relay went bad at 200K...when most cars at that age would have been lanquishing in the junkyard. Most GM's can't be KEPT together past 100K.

Well you know what they say...the devil is in the details. Maybe Mitsu was trying to save too much money on the little things.

[deevergote]

Mitsu has always been a little less quality, IMO. The 4G63 is still a stout motor, but it's abused more often than not... well, the 2G 4G63 was trash compared to the 1G, but still. They've used that motor successfully for 17 years, and many of the originals are still going. Better than Honda in terms of reliability? No. But not trash.

And I agree about Toyota. Honestly, I see Toyota as the Japanese version of GM. They're big, revered, and they don't quite meet expectations anymore. Still, their reputation and sheer size keep them going strong. I'd rather have an 80s Toyota than something made this millenium. Hell, I heard the new Avalon was so bad that they damn near pulled it from the showroom floor! Pretty bad for a flagship!

While we're discussing Japanese cars and reliability... I've always liked Nissan, although from all the research I've done (I've considered many a Nissan) it seems that the engineers make some really funky design choices. I like the reliability, but every Nissan I've ever researched (Stanza, 240sx, Sentra, Maxima) seems to have the same gripe attached... they're a pain to work on.

Subaru. I like Subaru. However, in terms of price, service, and availibiliy... Subarus seem to be more like German cars than Japanese! If I blow something up on my Honda, I can replace it somewhat easily. I'm afraid to get a Subie because of the costs.

[mondojackal]

Mitsu has always been a little less quality, IMO. The 4G63 is still a stout motor, but it's abused more often than not... well, the 2G 4G63 was trash compared to the 1G, but still. They've used that motor successfully for 17 years, and many of the originals are still going. Better than Honda in terms of reliability? No. But not trash.

And I agree about Toyota. Honestly, I see Toyota as the Japanese version of GM. They're big, revered, and they don't quite meet expectations anymore. Still, their reputation and sheer size keep them going strong. I'd rather have an 80s Toyota than something made this millenium. Hell, I heard the new Avalon was so bad that they damn near pulled it from the showroom floor! Pretty bad for a flagship!

While we're discussing Japanese cars and reliability... I've always liked Nissan, although from all the research I've done (I've considered many a Nissan) it seems that the engineers make some really funky design choices. I like the reliability, but every Nissan I've ever researched (Stanza, 240sx, Sentra, Maxima) seems to have the same gripe attached... they're a pain to work on.

Subaru. I like Subaru. However, in terms of price, service, and availibiliy... Subarus seem to be more like German cars than Japanese! If I blow something up on my Honda, I can replace it somewhat easily. I'm afraid to get a Subie because of the costs.

that just about sums it up, but you forgot to say that ford is just altogether lacking in build quality...my main gripe with fords..they just dont last..

[SN2BH22CB7]

car and driver, road and track..all those are fine, except that they really dont accurately represent the everyday numbers that people will get. they have darn near perfect runs after running a car hard all day, and they record the best time, even if its a fluke..they aren't numbers to go by.

oh ok...thanks for the info Mondo

[owequitit]

Mitsu has always been a little less quality, IMO. The 4G63 is still a stout motor, but it's abused more often than not... well, the 2G 4G63 was trash compared to the 1G, but still. They've used that motor successfully for 17 years, and many of the originals are still going. Better than Honda in terms of reliability? No. But not trash.

And I agree about Toyota. Honestly, I see Toyota as the Japanese version of GM. They're big, revered, and they don't quite meet expectations anymore. Still, their reputation and sheer size keep them going strong. I'd rather have an 80s Toyota than something made this millenium. Hell, I heard the new Avalon was so bad that they damn near pulled it from the showroom floor! Pretty bad for a flagship!

While we're discussing Japanese cars and reliability... I've always liked Nissan, although from all the research I've done (I've considered many a Nissan) it seems that the engineers make some really funky design choices. I like the reliability, but every Nissan I've ever researched (Stanza, 240sx, Sentra, Maxima) seems to have the same gripe attached... they're a pain to work on.

Subaru. I like Subaru. However, in terms of price, service, and availibiliy... Subarus seem to be more like German cars than Japanese! If I blow something up on my Honda, I can replace it somewhat easily. I'm afraid to get a Subie because of the costs.

I hear you.

I am not sure how Toyota keeps stealing the top spots on JD Power. I have encountered a lot of new ones with problems in a short amount of time, whereas Hondas seem to be lasting as long as they always have.

IMO Toyota got their reputation back when they were building cars that had nothing TO break. Now people assume they are good. They have a lot of repeat customers though, so who knows.

I don't know many people that have trouble with their Subies, but there is always that chance which makes it risky...

I like most Nissans too. My #2 favorite Japanese manufacturer.

[deevergote]

Even new Hondas don't have the same feel as the old ones... I've been in newer Civics that felt rather cheap inside. Anything older than 1995 doesn't interest me

[owequitit]

Even new Hondas don't have the same feel as the old ones... I've been in newer Civics that felt rather cheap inside. Anything older than 1995 doesn't interest me

True. My cousin had a 2001 Civic EX. It was a nice car, but it was about where the Accord was in 1990 in terms of refinement and materials quality.

My mom's 02 EX V6 is nice, but it isn't like OMG! This is so HAWT!!!

But the 06's are significantly nicer. Real leather lots of features and actual Honda V6 power. I really like them.

I haven't had much chance to look at the new Civics, but I would definitely rock a new SI...

It's ok though. You are just getting old. You are like all the muscle car guys now! LOL.

[deevergote]

Yeah, all the guys that grew up with muscle cars see our cars as crap. We see the older boxy imports as treasures... kids growing up todaysee our cars as crap, and the 300hp turbo beasts as the thing to have (the line fuzzed by the flood of Japanese, Euro, and now domestic cars in this category).