Got stomped by VW GTI

[accordaffair]

Well, me and my friend were heading down to the mall yesterday, and I instead of taking one car, I said, "Maybe we can do a roll at like 40?" He said sure, but on the way back (because it was closing soon). On the way there I was being ricey and blowing by him at light changes. I knew I'd lose but I hoped I could at least stay with him through 2nd. On the way back we went from a roll, and from a stop. We raced at least 3-4 times. He let me get a headstart and then he went WOT. He blew by me like I was standing still, it was an embarassment.

My car: 1990 accord automatic, AEM CAI, a6 mani swap (other mods are not drag race related ) maybe 135 hp at best, never dragged but probably 17 if I did.
His car: Not sure of year but its fairly new VW GTI, CAI, High flow exhaust, not sure what else, but he said he expects to put down around 250hp and he did a 13.2 at moroso. I remember the first time he went to the track he was in the 14's.

SO I got slaughtered...maybe if I got an H22 and 5-speed, maybe then I could at least give him SOME competition.

[Nycxeracer]

Yah, you're auto like me, even though I have a lot of "performance enhancers", I'd still lose to that car, even H22's on here would. It's a fast bastard, end of story. Stick to your own weight class, you'll feel much better racing them. Always keep in mind one important factor, our cb7's were designed as grocery getters, not the performance minded cars they have become from our tuning. Our flywheel rating is like 140, and when a 93 EX is actually dynoed it was like 108 and that's for AUTO @ the WHEELS my friend.

Not to burst your bubble, but you're probably not putting down 135 @ the wheels. With Cai, and swap, maybe 115-118 and I'm being generous. Sorry man. =(.

[accordaffair]

?

a1-125
a4-130
a6-140

Wheres 115 come from? Because I have an auto?

But you're right about the difference in weight/size, even with the same HP he'd still whoop me.

[Sho Nuff]

He said 118 at the wheels. And that is being generous. Was it a 1.8 or a vr6? Either way they respond very F'n well to mods.

[accordaffair]

oh well in that case I'm not sure what the GTI puts at the wheels, but it's a 1.8, and it's got pretty mean torque with that turbo boosting it

[accordaffair]

i've been slapped even more, turns out his cars heavier than mine (his weighs in at 3200 lbs), his trap speed is 102.3, he estimates 210/275 to wheels, 250 at crank, and 300 ft-lbs at crank.....engine-wise he has intake, exhaust, and a chipped ecu...I always thought his car would be much lighter, now I learn its heavier, makes me even sadder, but I know I'm over-reacting, cuz his car out-classes mine at its current state

[sandman61377]

Guys, come on, racing isn't just about what the car has under the hood, its also what the driver has in the chest! I'm on my forth cb7, and I've raced all of them. I'll lay down same of the things I've done.
91 5-speed LX, catback exhaust, cold air induction - top speed reached was 130, still had over a grand worth of rpm's before the redline, but I was coming up on a big cop area so I slowed down. Beat some lowrider pickup, couldn't tell the make/model; a big late seventies/early eighties? ford pickup (very nice looking truck); early nineties Firebird;my friends '94 Maxima; some others that I didn't notice what they were, only been beaten by my friends 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, still gave good comp though! once pulled up next to a car, was gonna try to race, then I noticed it was a '99 Corvette Z06, and I said "hell no"
92 5-speed LX, stock - 0-60 timed, approx. 5.5 seconds. Beat a late eighties firebird, a early nineties Camaro, a late nineties Celica, some others, only beaten by a mid-late nineties Mustang GT
92 auto DX, stock - only raced three vehicles: beat my friends ~'97 Grand Am, beat a Dodge Ram VTS (1500 V8 Sport), that's the one with the Viper tranny, NOT the new one with the Viper engine (I'm confident, not stupid), beaten by another cb7
92 auto EX (current vehicle), catback, K&N cold air induction, lowered about 1.5 - 2 inches, beat my friends Chevy ?Aveo? I think it is (he just got it), beat two different cb7's (one looked stock, the other I think was modded), today some (newer) Toyota I didn't recognize, some others that don't really matter (a Pt Cruiser - really, come on), haven't been beaten yet
Bottom line is, if you've got the heart and the skills , and a good car, which we know Accords are, you have a chance of beating just about anthing, (within reason, ain't nobody beating a Vette in an Escort, though I had fun tryin'! I was actually ahead of him once or twice because I could weave through the traffic on the highway better since an Escort is shorter then a Vette, but he BLEW me away in the open, almost felt like I was standing still, I didn't feel bad about it at all though, 'cuz it wasn't even my car! hey the owner was in the car with me and told me to try racin the Vette)

[Turbo Dave]

...within reason, ain't nobody beating a Vette in an Escort...

Haha yeah man you rocked the escort! i got one too lol. omGGGGAWD im getting the freaking GTI AHH I CANT WAIT after this summer man woo wee i love that car vrooom vrooooooooom

[accordtunerx]

i've raced one of these 1.8 GTI's before and beat him 3 times in a row with my H22 *auto*

just goes to show how much of a race is also dependent on the driver - because he had some work/tuning done as well and should have easily taken me.

[deevergote]

GTIs are nice, and certainly fast... I just don't like VW. They confuse the hell outta me! And they're so... German.

As for the wheel hp discussion above, in case it isn't clear to anyone: accordaffair estimates that his car makes 135hp or so... that's a crank estimate. Nycxeracer is saying that because of the additional drivetrain losses involved with an auto, that car is probably getting about 108 to the wheels. Same hp, measured in different places.

And no, an automatic, lightly modded CB7 will NEVER beat a 1.8t GTI with mods, regardless of the driver. The GTI would have to blow up mid-race for that to happen! Those things run 15s stock with pretty much anyone behind the wheel. I've put a buttload of money into my car, and I still wouldn't beat the GTI in question! Perhaps next summer I could
edit: damn you steve for contradictiing me while I was typing

[sandman61377]

For technical reference did a side-by-side comparison lookup on KBB.com
used an 03 GTI; '91 DX (wouldn't let me pick a '90) he doesnt say whether its a DX/LX/EX; '92 EX is what I drive; and the VTEC Prelude is for H22A1 w/manual tranny comparrison
03 VW GTI, '91 Acc DX, '92 Acc EX, '93 Prelude VTEC

Cylinders 4, 4, 4, 4
Displacement 1.8, 2.2, 2.2, 2.2
Bore x Stroke 3.19 x 3.40, 3.35 x 3.74, 3.35 x 3.74, 3.43 x 3.57
Compression Ratio 9.5, 8.8, 8.8, 10.0
Fuel Type TG, G, G, G
Fuel Induction SFI, MFI, MFI, MFI
Valve Train DOHC, SOHC, SOHC, DOHC
Valves Per Cylinder 5, 4, 4, 4
Total Number Valves 20, 16, 16, 16
Horsepower 180, 125, 140, 190
@5500 RPM, @5200 RPM, @5600 RPM, @6800 RPM
Torque 173, 137, 142, 158
@1950 RPM, @4000 RPM, @4500 RPM, @5300 RPM
Max Eng. Speed - - - -
Transmission 5 Spd, Auto, Auto, 5 Spd
Drivetrain FrWD, FrWD, FrWD, FrWD
Curb Weight 2932lbs, 2849lbs, 3053lbs, 2932lbs
3051lbs, 2773lbs, 2987lbs,

I think based on the stock specs, a modded H22/manual would be ABLE to beat a GTI, even if it were also modded, but it that doesn't mean that it WILL, the skill/heart of either driver can definately make or break the race for either (and just about any) car.

[deevergote]

The GTI still has the torque advantage over the H22, and it reaches it's max power earlier in the RPM range. Not saying it isn't possible, but if the drivers are equal, the GTI should win. So yeah, it's down to the drivers. The H22 is still the underdog regardless.

[sandman61377]

The H22 is still the underdog regardless.

Yeah, but being the underdog and still winning is FUN.

[accordaffair]

BTW I have a 90 LX 4-door, but regardless he stomps the poo out of me. When he goes WOT he can screech tires in 3rd, and he takes off like a jet while I sit there like a ricer ***... anyway like I said he did 13.2 last time he went to moroso (on slicks) average my accord to probably do 17 at the 1/4 = get burnt like toast in a race. BUT, believe it or not I can keep up and probably defeat him in a curved race. After the straight line race we went down a very curvy road, and while he was moving fast, I was right behind him, not trying to pass and not even for a second screeching my tires (16x7, sportlines on KYB AGX's) so if I raced him there I think I could take him....maybe

[90AccordVTEC]

I have beaten 2 1.8T GTI's. I have a 90 cb7 5sp 2d with a jdm h22 swap. The first one i raced was modded,intake, full exhaust, nos (but his bottle was empty), front mount, bov, wheels, body kit, stuff like that. We stared from a stop and i had a consistent pull on him from the start through every gear, had 2 car lenghts on him when i shifted to 3rd, we raced 2 times and same thing happend, both had good launched too. The second one was stock except intake. That race was from a stop as well, but i had a shitty launch and he had a good one but i passed him up and had about 4 cars on him in 4th. At that time my h22 had 2 1/4 cat back, msd wires, denso iridium plugs, aftermarket filter on stock intake tube, and that was before i took the p/s and a/c off, and i have done more mods since then. Also had 17's then and still on em now.