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H311RA151N : 1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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I ordered Wagner Thermoquiet pads for the front and rear. Front got here but rear didn't yet. Also got a BAFX bluetooth adapter for pulling CEL's and monitoring.
20161001_160040 by jcarden405, on FlickrLast edited by H311RA151N; 10-08-2016, 07:22 PM.
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Ok, I'm starting to make headway and it's fighting me a little. I have an OBD2 bluetooth adapter and it can't find the ECU. It works via phone (torque app) and the phone and adapter will connect but not the ECU. So this could be several problems.
I've been researching and I've purchased a VAG-COM USB KKL 409.1 cable that is actually designed for Audi, BMW, VW. The car being a 98/99 has a flashable ECU. With the cable, a program called Evoscan and the correct driver I will be able to datalog. Which is what I'm after. Going in with my laptop and Evoscan I will be able to rule out an OBD2 scanner/adapter issue if the connectivity issue with the ECU persists. If not I'll be able to datalog which is the purpose anyhow. The cable ran me $20 shipped.
I know the car is pulling timing on me. That's what I'm worried about. This could be one of a couple issues.
It's boost spiking to 17-19psi isn't normal (if the boost gauge is accurate.) I remember reading that it was but that is false. This wouldn't directly cause it to pull timing but the lack of fuel it can create will. Earlier in this thread I stated that the fuel filter is factory original and is seized. That's why I bought the Fuel Lab 818. I also purchased a Walbro 190 kit and STM fuel pump rewire kit.
I'm going to tackle this ASAP.
I purchased an OEM fuel tank gasket which is all I lack to get this done. The gasket ran me $20.
This still doesn't take care of the boost spike issue though. So, for this I need to do another boost leak test but this time in a much more accurate manner using a gauge instead of listening for leaks. And I need to test the wategate. Which involves removing it from the turbocharger. I will also add that the previous owner didn't install their boost gauge in the proper location. I installed mine where they installed theirs and it's wrong. Way wrong. The right location is on the throttlebody. So I need to do this as well to ensure an accurate boost reading.
Lastly, it could be a lifter(s). There are a couple more things that could cause it but those listed in this post are the first to check and the most likely culprits. As for the lifters from the factory they have oiling holes that become a little bit too small when they start getting any mileage on them at all. Even 30,000. My lifters do make a little noise but not bad. Still this can trigger the knock sensor into thinking it's detonation thus pulling timing. I don't think this is it but once I can datalog it will tell me if it's pulling timing due to knock. The lifters aren't hard to replace. With the right tool you don't have to remove the cams.
I purchased a digital tire inflator which connects to the schrader valve on my STM boost leak tester. It allows me to put air in and monitor the pressure. I need to hold XX amount of PSI for 30 seconds without dropping below XX PSI. It probably has boost leaks but I'm unsure as to how bad. Before the OEM 2g BPV leaked so horribly I couldn't not notice it.
And for the brakes. I bought a set of Wagner pads for the front and rear already. But after looking more at the rear rotors I realized they are pitted. So I bought brake stuff. Wager rotors and caliper guide pin boots. Carlson guide pins. A Dorman speed bleeder set.
I also bought a Mann replacement air filter. Can't hurt, current one's a little dirty.
So.
-Installing the boost gauge correctly comes first.
-Then a boost leak test.
-Followed by a wastegate test.
-Try and get into the ECU with Evoscan and the VAG-COM cable. (Either it'll work or it won't. If not I've got to trace the issue down.)
I know this is a lot of stuff specific to this vehicle and that maybe no one cares. But I keep this thread updated for my records and also so I can put everything "on paper". As well as share progress, pics etc. This forum seems to be the most stable and a place where it's allowed. And an appriactive bunch as well.
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Arrival of some parts today. Received the order from Rock Auto and the digital tire inflator.
20161008_160145 by jcarden405, on Flickr
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I have everything I need to run the tests except an air compressor. Which I will borrow from work Friday.
I have been reading about datalogging and have purchased everything I need in order to run logs on Evoscan. I have Evoscan V2.6 and ECUFlash. I don't know if I have the right drivers installed yet.
I received the rest of my orders today.
Two different brands of compression fitting sleeves, the Vag-Com cable, an OBD extension cable, and some 2-in-1 oil for putting the AN fittings together when I install the FuelLab system.
2016-10-11_11-11-08 by jcarden405, on Flickr
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I'm still working on CeddyMods and ECUFlash 1.44. But I have EvoScan v2.9 very close to being operable. I have the Vag Com 409.1 cable working with Evoscan now with the correct driver.
Where I'm at with Evoscan while attempting to datalog.
ScreenShot_20161013213824 by jcarden405, on Flickr
Top right hand corner...
Info: AutoReconect Retry#4
Info: Initialize Vehicle ECU...
Info: Initializing At 5 baud...
Info: Timer: 1833.3838ms
Info: PC CPU 5baudrate 3673ms
Info: QPFreq: 2338445
Info: CPU Timer Factor Applied: 1
Info: Initialization Complete...
Info: Waiting for INIT Response...
Error: No Response from Vehicle ECU
Info: Datalogger Ended.
And while attempting to display DTC's.
Info: Attempt baudrate MUTII.
Info: Initialize Vehicle ECU...
Info: Initializing At 5 baud...
Info: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow.
Info: Check DTCs Complete.
I'll get it there. It just takes time. I'm no expert at this and knew nothing what so ever when I started on this a few days ago.
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A little update.
I disconnected the boost control solenoid lines that go to the wastegate actuator and intake tube. Then I connected the wastegate nipple to the nipple on the turbo housing. If the BCS is faulty this should reduce the boost down to about 10psi from what I've read. I haven't test driven the car yet.
I checked the turbocharger. 6 months and about 2500 miles ago the T25 had zero shaft play. Now it's about shot from running too much boost. Not surprised.
I'm currently sourcing a used 14b. There isn't a new replacement T25 wastegate actuator with the correct DSM flange within the universe. My plan is to send the 14b off to Turbo Lab of America to be rebuilt then throw it on the car with the help of an ExtremePSI install kit. Wastegate actuators for the 14b are abundant and the turbocharger it's self is said to be more durable.
While I was at it I cleaned the MAF. It wasn't very dirty. And installed a new Mann air filter.
I suspect either the wastegate actuator or the BCS is what's causing the boost spike. The BCS has been eliminated. As far as I know, the culprit of the boost spiking has been narrowed down to a faulty wastegate actuator or a boost leak. I will be preforming a very thorough boost leak test tomorrow.
The c-clip on the wastegate actuator shaft was so rusted that it broke in half. So I've ordered several replacements.
20161014_180752 by jcarden405, on Flickr
20161014_180813 by jcarden405, on Flickr
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checked the OBD2 port. Pin 16 with the key on ACC and engine off has around 11.6 volts and slowly continues to bleed off. Pin 80 on the ECU has the same symptoms and there is no variation in voltage in comparison to pin 16. I suspect that the battery is bad. I'm buying an interstate 550cca battery this coming week and new battery cables.
Pin 16 grounded with the car running. Using pin 5 as ground.
Pin 1 has 4.5-4.6 volts with the key on ACC and engine off. Pin 56 on the ECU has the same voltage. When car is running pin 1 has 5.2v as does pin 56 on the ECU.
Pin 1 with the car running. Using pin 5 as the ground.
I checked the alternator wiring. Specifically the green wire. The connector and wiring appears to be in good shape. Green wire holds same voltage as everything else.
Inspected the ECU. Found some chalky green corrosion on some of the pins on both the ECU and the harness. Not irreversible. Cleaned the pins with electronics cleaner, let dry then applied a little CRC spray dielectric grease on the pins. Inspected ECU components for evidence of damage. Turned up nothing.
The previous owner screwed the OBD diagnostics port up. Loose wires, corrosion, spliced, etc. I've ordered a nice 16 pin OBD2 pigtail to replace the current disaster going on. The replacement port will be secured in a hidden location and a Y splitter that I also ordered will be installed.
I tested fuses 11 and 12 in the engine bay fuse box on both sides. They read the exact same as everything else. Since there is no variation in voltage between all the components tested the battery appears to be the most likely culprit. If not, I know where to start looking.
Displaying battery voltage with key on and vehicle off.
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Code:LogID LogEntryDate LogEntryTime LogEntrySeconds LogNotes EngineLoad CoolantTemp STFT STFT2 LTFT LTFT2 STFTBank1 STFTBank2 STFTBank3 STFTBank4 LTFTBank1 LTFTBank2 LTFTBank3 LTFTBank4 FuelRailPressure IntakeManifAbsPress RPM Speed Timing AirTemp MAF TPS SecondaryAirStatus O2SensorB1S1 O2SensorB1S2 O2SensorB2S2 O2SensorB2S3 O2SensorB2S4 STFTB1S1 STFTB1S2 STFTB1S3 STFTB1S4 STFTB2S2 STFTB2S3 STFTB2S4 O2SensorBank1S1 STFTBank1S4 STFTBank2S1 STFTBank2S2 STFTBank2S3 STFTBank2S4 PowerTakeOffStatus TimeSinceEngStart DisTravelledMIL FuelRailPressRel2ManifoldVac FuelRailPressure2 O2SensorB1S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorB1S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorB1S3WDB_Lambda O2SensorB1S4WDB_Lambda O2SensorB2S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorB2S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorB2S3WDB_Lambda O2SensorB2S4WDB_Lambda O2SensorB1S1WDB_Volts O2SensorB1S2WDB_Volts O2SensorB1S3WDB_Volts O2SensorB1S4WDB_Volts O2SensorB2S1WDB_Volts O2SensorB2S2WDB_Volts O2SensorB2S3WDB_Volts O2SensorB2S4WDB_Volts O2SensorBank1S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank1S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank2S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank2S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank3S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank3S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank4S1WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank4S2WDB_Lambda O2SensorBank1S1WDB_Volts O2SensorBank1S2WDB_Volts O2SensorBank2S1WDB_Volts O2SensorBank2S2WDB_Volts O2SensorBank3S1WDB_Volts O2SensorBank3S2WDB_Volts O2SensorBank4S1WDB_Volts O2SensorBank4S2WDB_Volts CommandedEGR EGRError CommandedEvapPurge FuelLevel WarmUpsSinceDTC DistanceSinceDTC EvapSysVaporPressure BarometricPressure O2SensorB1S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB1S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB1S3WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB1S4WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB2S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB2S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB2S3WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB2S4WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorB1S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB1S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB1S3WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB1S4WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB2S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB2S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB2S3WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorB2S4WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank1S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank1S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank2S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank2S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank3S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank3S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank4S1WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank4S2WDB_Linear_Lambda O2SensorBank1S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank1S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank2S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank2S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank3S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank3S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank4S1WDB_Linear_Current_mA O2SensorBank4S2WDB_Linear_Current_mA CatTempB1S1 CatTempB2S1 CatTempB1S2 CatTempB2S2 ControleModuleV AbsoluteLoad CommandedAFRatio RelThrottlePosition AmbientAirTemp AbsThrottlePosB AbsThrottlePosC AccelPedalPosD AccelPedalPosE AccelPedalPosF CommandedThrottleActuatorControl MinutesWhileMIL TimeSinceDTCclear MaxO2EquivRatio MaxO2SensorVolts MaxO2SensorCurrent MaxIntakeMAP MaxMAF FuelType AlcoholFuelPercent AbsEvapSystemVapourPressure EvapSystemVapourPressure STFTSecO2B1 STFTSecO2B2 STFTSecO2B3 STFTSecO2B4 LTFTSecO2B1 LTFTSecO2B2 LTFTSecO2B3 LTFTSecO2B4 FuelRailPressureAbsolute RelativeTPS Custom 1 10/16/2016 06:27.9 1.38449 14.50980392 95 124.21875 100 1330.75 0 18 54 45200 1.960784314 0.04 0.44 2 10/16/2016 06:33.1 6.62404 14.50980392 95 124.21875 100 1327 0 18 54 44900 1.960784314 0.04 0.44 3 10/16/2016 06:34.4 7.93734 14.90196078 95 124.21875 100 1287.75 0 17 54 45000 1.960784314 0.04 0.44 4 10/16/2016 06:35.7 9.24372 14.90196078 95 124.21875 100 1280 0 17 54 45100 1.960784314 0.04 0.46 5 10/16/2016 06:37.0 10.55663 15.29411765 95 124.21875 100 1276.25 0 17 54 45200 1.960784314 0.04 0.46 6 10/16/2016 06:49.4 22.97407 14.90196078 96 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 17 54 44900 1.960784314 0.02 0.48 7 10/16/2016 06:50.8 24.28088 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 17 54 44600 1.960784314 0.02 0.48 8 10/16/2016 06:52.1 25.5808 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1291.75 0 17 54 44300 1.960784314 0.02 0.48 9 10/16/2016 06:53.4 26.8866 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1284 0 17 54 44900 1.960784314 0.02 0.48 10 10/16/2016 06:54.7 28.19001 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1287.75 0 17 54 44300 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 11 10/16/2016 06:56.0 29.50111 15.29411765 97 124.21875 100 1272.5 0 17 54 44500 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 12 10/16/2016 06:57.3 30.79903 15.29411765 97 124.21875 100 1287.75 0 17 54 44900 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 13 10/16/2016 06:58.6 32.09872 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 17 54 45200 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 14 10/16/2016 06:59.9 33.39564 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 17 54 44300 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 15 10/16/2016 07:01.2 34.70853 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1280 0 17 54 45100 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 16 10/16/2016 07:02.5 36.00833 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1295.75 0 17 54 44600 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 17 10/16/2016 07:05.0 38.53793 14.90196078 97 124.21875 100 1268.5 0 17 54 45600 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 18 10/16/2016 07:06.4 39.8865 15.29411765 97 124.21875 100 1287.75 0 17 54 45800 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 19 10/16/2016 07:07.7 41.23632 15.29411765 97 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 17 54 45600 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 20 10/16/2016 07:09.0 42.557 15.29411765 96 124.21875 100 1299.5 0 18 54 46000 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 21 10/16/2016 07:12.8 46.31855 14.90196078 96 124.21875 100 1311.25 0 18 54 45800 1.960784314 0.02 0.5 22 10/16/2016 07:14.1 47.63328 14.90196078 96 124.21875 100 1319 0 18 54 45400 1.960784314 0.02 0.52 23 10/16/2016 07:34.7 68.24991 16.8627451 94 104.6875 100 1190.75 0 15 54 45800 1.960784314 0.02 0.48 24 10/16/2016 07:36.1 69.59177 16.47058824 94 104.6875 100 1198.5 0 15 54 45000 1.960784314 0.02 0.32 25 10/16/2016 07:37.4 70.93091 16.8627451 94 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 54 45500 1.960784314 0.02 0.44 26 10/16/2016 08:16.1 109.65445 16.47058824 92 104.6875 100 1179 0 14 54 45100 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 27 10/16/2016 08:18.1 111.59671 16.47058824 92 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 54 44600 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 28 10/16/2016 08:20.0 113.56709 16.47058824 93 104.6875 100 1159.5 0 14 54 44500 1.568627451 0.04 0.48 29 10/16/2016 08:21.4 114.89218 16.47058824 93 104.6875 100 1175 0 14 54 44400 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 30 10/16/2016 08:22.7 116.21949 16.47058824 93 104.6875 100 1175 0 14 54 44200 1.960784314 0.04 0.48 31 10/16/2016 08:24.0 117.54424 16.47058824 93 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 54 45100 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 32 10/16/2016 08:25.3 118.87433 16.47058824 94 104.6875 100 1194.5 0 15 54 44300 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 33 10/16/2016 08:26.7 120.23378 16.07843137 94 104.6875 100 1186.75 0 15 54 44900 1.960784314 0.04 0.46 34 10/16/2016 08:28.0 121.56371 16.07843137 94 104.6875 100 1179 0 14 54 44300 1.960784314 0.04 0.46 35 10/16/2016 08:29.4 122.89243 16.47058824 94 104.6875 100 1159.5 0 14 54 44400 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 36 10/16/2016 08:30.7 124.22406 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1171.25 0 14 54 44500 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 37 10/16/2016 08:32.0 125.54093 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1171.25 0 14 54 44800 1.960784314 0.04 0.48 38 10/16/2016 08:33.3 126.85904 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 54 44500 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 39 10/16/2016 08:34.8 128.32874 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 54 44500 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 40 10/16/2016 08:36.1 129.66323 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1190.75 0 15 54 44300 1.960784314 0.04 0.5 41 10/16/2016 08:37.4 130.9767 16.47058824 95 104.6875 100 1186.75 0 15 54 44500 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 42 10/16/2016 08:38.8 132.29332 16.07843137 95 104.6875 100 1183 0 15 54 44300 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 43 10/16/2016 08:40.1 133.6056 16.07843137 96 104.6875 100 1186.75 0 15 54 44500 1.960784314 0.04 0.54 44 10/16/2016 08:41.4 134.91932 16.07843137 96 104.6875 100 1186.75 0 14 54 45000 1.960784314 0.04 0.54 45 10/16/2016 08:42.7 136.25804 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1198.5 0 15 54 44100 1.960784314 0.04 0.54 46 10/16/2016 08:44.0 137.56872 16.07843137 96 104.6875 100 1206.25 0 15 53 44200 1.960784314 0.04 0.54 47 10/16/2016 08:45.4 138.89062 16.07843137 96 104.6875 100 1198.5 0 15 53 44300 1.960784314 0.04 0.56 48 10/16/2016 09:09.9 163.40289 16.47058824 97 104.6875 100 1155.5 0 14 53 44400 1.960784314 0.04 0.52 49 10/16/2016 09:11.2 164.73742 16.47058824 97 104.6875 100 1163.25 0 14 53 44500 1.960784314 0.02 0.52 50 10/16/2016 09:12.5 166.03806 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1171.25 0 14 53 44400 1.960784314 0.02 0.54 51 10/16/2016 09:13.8 167.34798 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1175 0 14 53 44600 1.960784314 0.02 0.54 52 10/16/2016 09:15.1 168.6429 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1159.5 0 14 53 44400 1.960784314 0.02 0.52 53 10/16/2016 09:16.4 169.9426 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1155.5 0 14 53 44600 1.960784314 0.02 0.52 54 10/16/2016 09:17.7 171.24745 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1171.25 0 14 53 45200 1.960784314 0.02 0.52 55 10/16/2016 09:19.0 172.54522 16.47058824 96 104.6875 100 1175 0 14 53 44900 1.960784314 0.02 0.52
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Bought some more parts.
RockAuto, 1998 EAGLE TALON 2.0L L4 Turbocharged
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS A304T (A30-4T) Battery Cable
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS A364TA (A36-4TA) Battery Cable
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS SK57 Fuel Injector O-Ring Set
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS RY302T Fog Lamp Relay
ExtremePSI
Throttlebody gaskets, FITV gasket, throttle biss screw, biss screw cap, biss screw o ring, ISC o ring, throttlebody shaft seals, metal half moon replacement piece of valve cover gasket.
ebay
CRC QD electronics cleaner, Heat shrink assortment, vacuum cap assortment, bunch of, black silicone vacuum line with matching spring clamps, OEM MFI and fuel pump relay, and a 6 piece set of line wrenches.
I'm eliminating all boost leaks. That's the primary objective of most of what I bought.
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Car stays in open loop. Gives code P0170 fuel trim malfunction bank 1.
Below is a datalog I pulled tonight. Car had ran for 40 mins for troubleshooting.
2016-10-20_08-28-16
Coolant temperature is for 95-97's.
Coolant temperature scaling is for mine, 98-99. And it stayed at 81* the whole time. Never moved. Checked ECT sensor and found the connector had been repaired and a wire was ripped out of it.
Purchased a connector and pigtail from OHM Racing.com. And bought a new ECT sensor from NAPA.
Glad I finally found the source of the open loop issue.
The data received by the BAFX adapter via Torque Pro reviles the same info.
Screenshot_20161020-134556
BCS being faulty was the cause for the 20psi boost spikes. Eliminated boost control solenoid to resolve the issue. Connected the wastegate to the turbo housing. Gives the wastegate's true boost pressure setting which is 10.5psi.
20161020_162716
Recieved the ExtremePSI order today.
20161020_203218
Preformed a boost leak test today. The fuel injector seals start leaking around 10psi and leak severely at 30psi. Good thing I have new fuel injector seals and o-rings on the way.
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was gonna chime in on your log but you figured it out. nice to see someone who's mechanically inclined turn a wrench on a dsm.
you are definitely taking the right approach. long term plans?
if it were me, I'd scoop up a 1g side mount whenever you get the time. oem replacement and good mod. Keeps oem feel but definitely a better intercooler. 14b is what I would be after if I was you. I can tell you have a mechanical nitch, you'll have fun with the options a tdo5 housing gives you. a couple people have run low 11's and even a high 10.9x a time or two on the 14b.
I'm a dsm guy to the core. keep it up man..Originally posted by wed3kim a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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