Comptech

[owequitit]

Scott you make a lot of good points...

But I still think it boils down to lack of innovation, niche, and their price point. While it is admirable that they attack the sections of the Honda aftermarket that went unnoticed by others, ultimately, if those sections cannot support their business, it's on them weather to expand or weather the storm and fold.

You mention they made suspension bits too. Here is the innovation part... compared to an established brand like Neuspeed, were their parts competitive? Did they have any innovative features that put them ahead of the pack enough to justify their high prices? The market says no.

And the price point... people with TLs and NSXs can spend the extra money on stuff. But the volume is not there. And in the mass-market Honda realm, you had better make it for cheap, or make it good and establish that you have a competitive product worth the price.

I think it's wrong to blame the community. I don't see how one can call the Honda community cheap when companies like Tein can charge $1,000 for coilovers and still be in business. SMSP is a very low-volume operation, but from what I know they can keep above water because they've proven they have a competitive product. And the market continually responds by buying their products.

Comptech seemed to be caught in that middle ground where their products were a little better than the cheap/regular stuff, a little more expensive, but not really much different in the long run. If there were some kinds of tests showing their products were really worth the premium over something like DC Sports or even OBX/MR within the realm of I/H/E they'd probably still be in business...

But ultimately, it's too little, too late. Yes a lot of Honda owners are relentless cheapskates who don't know Mugen from Megan Racing... but like any savvy consumer, a lot are just people who like to get the most bang for the buck. You can't really expect much more from people who drive $2,000 cars.

Yeah, but it wasn't just Comptech. Look at all the other import makers that are having trouble.

Is Apex'i overpriced on most of their stuff? Not hardly.

I just read somewhere that the import tuner industry in general is down something like 20% over the last year.

That is easily a big enough swing to kill some of the smaller independents companies as well as many of the larger ones as well apparently.

As far as their product goes, I wasn't able to sample it for myself, because they don't make stuff for the CB.

I was going to buy a used CM or a new Cx (whatever the 08+ will be) and hook it up though.

I can say this though. Anybody I have personally ever talked to LOVED their stuff. Like I said, their strut tower bars etc, were every bit as good as Neuspeeds, but they made them for applications that others didn't.

I can fairly blame it on the market, because I deal with the average Honda tuner all the time.

I have to listen to kids tell me how a strut tower bar from Ebay allows their cars to climb walls, and how a Megan Racing header gives their 88 Civic dual point hatch 300HP.

I have to hear about how a fart can makes an EP Si run 13's.

Then when they want something done, and you suggest real performance parts, they roll their eyes and complain about the price. I am not talking Comptech either. I am talking like Skunk 2, or RS*R or Neuspeed, or Apex'i.

They don't want to buy a WS2 because they are too much, even though they can't stop raving about the sound.

Then they go spend $250 on a crunch bent exhaust and a ricey muffler, complain about the sound, change mufflers, put a silencer, get pulled over, pay the ticket, add a resonator, add a NEW muffler and then say "at least I don't get tickets anymore."

It sounds funny, but it is 100% true.

What they don't realize, is that instead of just spend $350 on a WS2, they actually spent twice as much being less happy, because they didn't want to pay "that kind of money."

So when you suggest something like SMSP, they laugh and say "yeah right! It isn't worth that much money!", so they go and spend $200 on an EBAY header that makes them slower.

Sorry, but that part of the equation IS the market.

As far as Comptech goes, they did just fine as far as innovation goes. They weren't like M, or AMG, or any of the others.

Their goal was to make add on parts for existing cars that were fairly resonable, and reliable.

Now here is where they messed up. It wasn't their product or R&D (which by the way, Honda paid them to campaign more than 1 race car/team on Honda's behalf, which would indicate good product and innovation).

It was partly their pricing. The supercharger kits were around $4,000, where they probably should have been around $3,000.

It was partly their strategy. They focused on high end Accords, Civics, Integras, the TL, and the CL.

How large is that market really?

There were fewer than 20,000 NSX's built total. The Civic SI accounts for a small % of total Civic sales.

The TL/CL is fast enough for most people in stock trim, so the number of people who are willing to spend that kind of money on performance they won't use anyway, is a small % of those total sales.

How many people buy an Accord to build and supercharge it, especially when it is still under warranty, and most likely leased? Not very many. It was potentially a HUGE market, but no more. The same would apply to TL and CL as well.

Then for the RSX stuff and Civic stuff, they were up on the higher end of the scale, because you have all the cheaper companies competing for a piece of that pie too.

The end result is the reality. They went under.

The thing that irks me is that I find 3 kinds of people in the Honda market.

1) those who are perfectly happy with crap that doesn't do anything, doesn't fit and doesn't last because they don't know better.

2) those who want tons of good stuff, but bitch and are unwilling to pay when it actually does come out

3) those who are willing to pay for the stuff that is good and comes out.

Unfortunately, #3 is vastly the minority.

How about this:

The Pspec shifter. Everyone wanted a group buy on a high quality, high R&D short shifter. He responded. Tons of people wanted one, but only like 12 actually paid.

Instead, everyone went and bought the Fushigi because it was cheap.

Who got the better end of that deal?

Or how about this:

The average kid I talk to who wants to lower their car. I suggest Neuspeed, because in my experience, they are THE BEST.

H&R would be ok, or even Eibach if you like it a bit rougher.

You know what they say?

They bitch about $120 for a set of springs! Then they go buy $60 ebay coilovers and talk about how good it rides!

Imagine not being willing to spend $120 on springs! I remember when the only options were like $300, and they weren't as good!

[HondaB18]

Yeah, but it wasn't just Comptech. Look at all the other import makers that are having trouble.

Is Apex'i overpriced on most of their stuff? Not hardly.

I just read somewhere that the import tuner industry in general is down something like 20% over the last year.

That is easily a big enough swing to kill some of the smaller independents companies as well as many of the larger ones as well apparently.

As far as their product goes, I wasn't able to sample it for myself, because they don't make stuff for the CB.

I was going to buy a used CM or a new Cx (whatever the 08+ will be) and hook it up though.

I can say this though. Anybody I have personally ever talked to LOVED their stuff. Like I said, their strut tower bars etc, were every bit as good as Neuspeeds, but they made them for applications that others didn't.

I can fairly blame it on the market, because I deal with the average Honda tuner all the time.

I have to listen to kids tell me how a strut tower bar from Ebay allows their cars to climb walls, and how a Megan Racing header gives their 88 Civic dual point hatch 300HP.

I have to hear about how a fart can makes an EP Si run 13's.

Then when they want something done, and you suggest real performance parts, they roll their eyes and complain about the price. I am not talking Comptech either. I am talking like Skunk 2, or RS*R or Neuspeed, or Apex'i.

They don't want to buy a WS2 because they are too much, even though they can't stop raving about the sound.

Then they go spend $250 on a crunch bent exhaust and a ricey muffler, complain about the sound, change mufflers, put a silencer, get pulled over, pay the ticket, add a resonator, add a NEW muffler and then say "at least I don't get tickets anymore."

It sounds funny, but it is 100% true.

What they don't realize, is that instead of just spend $350 on a WS2, they actually spent twice as much being less happy, because they didn't want to pay "that kind of money."

So when you suggest something like SMSP, they laugh and say "yeah right! It isn't worth that much money!", so they go and spend $200 on an EBAY header that makes them slower.

Sorry, but that part of the equation IS the market.

As far as Comptech goes, they did just fine as far as innovation goes. They weren't like M, or AMG, or any of the others.

Their goal was to make add on parts for existing cars that were fairly resonable, and reliable.

Now here is where they messed up. It wasn't their product or R&D (which by the way, Honda paid them to campaign more than 1 race car/team on Honda's behalf, which would indicate good product and innovation).

It was partly their pricing. The supercharger kits were around $4,000, where they probably should have been around $3,000.

It was partly their strategy. They focused on high end Accords, Civics, Integras, the TL, and the CL.

How large is that market really?

There were fewer than 20,000 NSX's built total. The Civic SI accounts for a small % of total Civic sales.

The TL/CL is fast enough for most people in stock trim, so the number of people who are willing to spend that kind of money on performance they won't use anyway, is a small % of those total sales.

How many people buy an Accord to build and supercharge it, especially when it is still under warranty, and most likely leased? Not very many. It was potentially a HUGE market, but no more. The same would apply to TL and CL as well.

Then for the RSX stuff and Civic stuff, they were up on the higher end of the scale, because you have all the cheaper companies competing for a piece of that pie too.

The end result is the reality. They went under.

The thing that irks me is that I find 3 kinds of people in the Honda market.

1) those who are perfectly happy with crap that doesn't do anything, doesn't fit and doesn't last because they don't know better.

2) those who want tons of good stuff, but bitch and are unwilling to pay when it actually does come out

3) those who are willing to pay for the stuff that is good and comes out.

Unfortunately, #3 is vastly the minority.

How about this:

The Pspec shifter. Everyone wanted a group buy on a high quality, high R&D short shifter. He responded. Tons of people wanted one, but only like 12 actually paid.

Instead, everyone went and bought the Fushigi because it was cheap.

Who got the better end of that deal?

Or how about this:

The average kid I talk to who wants to lower their car. I suggest Neuspeed, because in my experience, they are THE BEST.

H&R would be ok, or even Eibach if you like it a bit rougher.

You know what they say?

They bitch about $120 for a set of springs! Then they go buy $60 ebay coilovers and talk about how good it rides!

Imagine not being willing to spend $120 on springs! I remember when the only options were like $300, and they weren't as good!

Fully agree, perhaps if Comptech was to diversify into say.... the Evos and Sti or the popular tuner car avaiable on the current market they might have a fighting chance. Comptech is a very reputable company. Take for example their icebox made for the B series engines, its a hybrid between a SRI and a CAI offering the best of both worlds the only thing holding them back (well most of the modders who are considering them) is the price. Sad to see such a good company go. What will happen with RealTime?

[owequitit]

Fully agree, perhaps if Comptech was to diversify into say.... the Evos and Sti or the popular tuner car avaiable on the current market they might have a fighting chance. Comptech is a very reputable company. Take for example their icebox made for the B series engines, its a hybrid between a SRI and a CAI offering the best of both worlds the only thing holding them back (well most of the modders who are considering them) is the price. Sad to see such a good company go. What will happen with RealTime?

Yes, even if they figured out a way to diversify more throughout the entire line.

Also, perhaps more self contained manufacturing would have helped their cause.

That would help insulate them from what is going on in all of their suppliers lives as well.

Most of the companies that are doing OK do most stuff in house.

I do agree with Glory to the extent that it would have been nice to see them do more NA R&D and release more products for more cars.

The Icebox would be equally effective on a CB7 or CD5 as it would on a Civic or Teg (especially the swapped ones), so why not?

Then if they bring the equipment in to do it themselves, AND diversify, they can spread the cost of their equipment out more.

There would have always been new Hondas to R&D and new products to make.

By keeping the numbers high, you can afford to keep quality up relatively, and cost down relatively.

Drive the exhausts, intakes, supercharger kits, down to the level of everyone else, but keep the quality up, and you have a winning recipe. Especially since the J series are all so similar, as are most of the chassis.

Between the Accord, Civic, Prelude, Odyssey, Integra, Legend, TL, RL, TSX, RSX, NSX, MDX, RDX, there MUST have been a way to stay open.

Especially when you consider, engine, ECU, suspension, intake and exhaust, brakes, trannies, interior, exterior etc.

A lot of cars in this list respond VERY well to mods, but nobody makes anything.

Eventually, they would have needed more engineers, but that could have been brought in slowly. Sustainable growth if you will.

Then, if needbe, they could have spread into other product lines.

Interestingly, Tom Elliot, the former Honda of America President has a TSX that was supercharged by Comptech.

It would be kinda cool if now that he is retired, he and a bunch of buddies got together and bought it, repaired it, and made it go.

Not that they will, just wishful thinking.

[T3aM 83rD]

I read somewhere that their downfall was due to poor managment. I know many Acura tuners loved comptech parts.

[SN2BH22CB7]

rattling like a sumabitch

LMAO...I remember Bernie Mack saying that, " SUMMABITCH "

[owequitit]

I read somewhere that their downfall was due to poor managment. I know many Acura tuners loved comptech parts.

It is very possible. The reason for closure was a disagreement between managment and investors.

Unfortunately, that is one of the factors that must be in place for a business to succeed.

I can think of a lot of good businesses with a lot of good products or product potential that have gone belly up because of poor strategy/management.

[gloryaccordy]

It is very possible. The reason for closure was a disagreement between managment and investors.

Unfortunately, that is one of the factors that must be in place for a business to succeed.

I can think of a lot of good businesses with a lot of good products or product potential that have gone belly up because of poor strategy/management.

And vice versa... i.e., Apple, Bose. For the most part their stuff is overpriced and pretty shitty, but for every 10 people I know, 9 have Ipods and 1 has something weird/unknown. A lot of selling products is the song and dance, and smoke and mirrors needed to get people to pony up the cash. Comptech had great products, but IMO they didn't have a strong enough brand identity or aggressive marketing... and again their stuff was quality, but not really innovative IMO...

[owequitit]

And vice versa... i.e., Apple, Bose. For the most part their stuff is overpriced and pretty shitty, but for every 10 people I know, 9 have Ipods and 1 has something weird/unknown. A lot of selling products is the song and dance, and smoke and mirrors needed to get people to pony up the cash. Comptech had great products, but IMO they didn't have a strong enough brand identity or aggressive marketing... and again their stuff was quality, but not really innovative IMO...

I agree, but for every one company that you can point out that has made it selling overpriced stuff, I could find 10 or more that haven't.

The main selling point for the Ipod is that it was the format universally accepted and supported for mobile use.

For instance. How many kits do you see for Creative Zen Musicboxes out there that will interface with your car stereo?

Notta One. They are all over for the Ipod.

That is one instance where the relative lack of standardization in the PC business actually bit them, because there are so many players, it took to long for them to figure out what they were going to do.

By then it was too late.

Apple has always made money by selling overpriced products to people. Remember when they used to own the computer industry?

I do.

The problem with their strategy is that their market share is a small fraction of what it could have been.

I would rather have a strategy that sells products on merit, not on smoke and mirrors. Eventually, the smoke and mirrors run out.

Take Honda for example. Their cars sell so fast that not only do they NOT discount them, but they can't build them fast enough.

You don't see a lot of smoke and mirrors in their advertising, touting performance that 99% will never use or understand, or spewing about features, or status.

Nope. Their cars sell because people know what they are, they know what they are getting, and they keep coming back.

Toyota is mostly the same way.

Wal-Mart, Target, JC Penneys, Dell, BMW, etc etc.

The fact is good products sell themselves as long as people know about them.

There will always be the niche groups that seek exclusivity, status and bragging rights in the market. Those are typically the niche groups though, and are not as large.

It is an acceptable strategy to go after those groups, but it is not the only strategy.

In all honesty though, it is speculatory in nature.

As far as we know, the product was doing just fine, but the management and investors had a disagreement about something else.

It isn't necessarily guaranteed to be financially related.

[accordme93]

I'm still bummed about this. I need an Icebox and exhaust!

[ACC0RD22]

two points I feel the need to comment on, for no particular reason.

Apple has always made money by selling overpriced products to people. Remember when they used to own the computer industry?

I do.

I wish I was old enough to remember 1984 and the glory days of the Apple ][.

The fact is good products sell themselves as long as people know about them.

I never saw any large banner ads for Comptech in Honda Tuning, or SCC. Ive been reading those for a few years, and they only ever had little ads in the back of the magazines. I think there were too many people that just didnt know about comptech's parts.

[floored]

and apexi



(j/k)

apexi said they were closin on their website, that was funny

[owequitit]

two points I feel the need to comment on, for no particular reason.




I wish I was old enough to remember 1984 and the glory days of the Apple ][.

LOL!

I used to think they were cool because it they had a "hood" that you could open.

Honestly, their strategy has proven horrible. Because of their belief in proprietary hardware, software, and thus pricing control, they allowed the open architecture of the PC to take over.

Apple had IBM so beat it wasn't even funny. I think at one point they controlled over 90% of the PC market.

What are they at today? An astounding 3% of the total marketshare?

Apples do many things well, so it isn't a knock on their capabilities. But they also were a victim of bad marketing and strategy.

Here is the thing though. They are doing better right now, but here is where I wonder if their strategy will again fail with time.

Instead of rectifying the underlying issue of complete proprietary control, they made Macintosh, and all Apple products for that matter, stylish.

The problem with styles and trends, is that they eventually change or die.

Apple can change the style with the trends, but ultimately, over time, the product will have to succeed on its merits.

That is why in many cases, trendy products do NOT hang around long term.

People flame Honda for being too boring, or not "cool" enough, but ultimately that is what sells long term. Unless you want to be constantly going out of business and resurrecting yourself, a sound business strategy is based on long term viability.

Products like the PC and the Accord are viable long term, because they are deadly effective at what they do, and thus will have a market place as long as they stay competitive.

I never saw any large banner ads for Comptech in Honda Tuning, or SCC. Ive been reading those for a few years, and they only ever had little ads in the back of the magazines. I think there were too many people that just didnt know about comptech's parts.

Based on the number of cars equipped with Comptech stuff that I have either seen, or run across, I don't think that is true.

It is hard to gauge the total potential market though, unless you are in it.

[growguy]

Apple has always made money by selling overpriced products to people.

ok, apple computers are expensive, i will admit that. however, what you don't take into consideration is the exceptional resale value of older macs. 2-4 year old powerbooks are still worth a good chunk of their original pricetag. can you say the same about a similarily equipped PC laptop purchased around the same time?

[owequitit]

ok, apple computers are expensive, i will admit that. however, what you don't take into consideration is the exceptional resale value of older macs. 2-4 year old powerbooks are still worth a good chunk of their original pricetag. can you say the same about a similarily equipped PC laptop purchased around the same time?

Nope. Because in 2 to 4 years you have a PC that will run circles around the old stuff.

The old PCs become paperweights not because they aren't as good as the Mac, but because they are obsolete.

There isn't an intrinsic resale indicator with technology.

A car retains its value because it lasts, and still provides reliable transportation.

I don't buy a computer to resale it for less than what I paid, that would be silly.

I buy a computer to do a job, and if it holds a particular value, that is a plus.