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    Acura ASCC dead already????

    http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=663141

    An interesting article.

    Personally to me it would be a good thing.

    The NSX is a mid engined rear wheel drive car with a super power to weight ratio and superb dynamics.

    The ASCC was not that car. It was not the replacement for that car.

    The NSX never sold well, but what it did do was to prove that a lowly "economy" minded japanese company could build a car that would STOMP the competition in every way shape and form.

    Not only did it outhandle, outrun, and out look its closest Ferrari competitor at the time; it cost substantially less and was everyday drivable.

    Yes, this was the era where Ferraris were about hugging the service garage floor and boulevard bragging rights.

    The NSX could be driven hundreds of thousands of miles and be perfectly happy and reliable doing it with minor preventative maintenance.

    This is what Honda is thinking clearly on:

    Lots of horsepower

    Lots of technology

    Lots of "bragging" rights

    Here is where they need some help:

    AWD is not pure in the same sense as Mid/Rear. It does get the job done, but the driving experience is wholly different.

    FR while being undeniably attractive and powerful looking, IS NOT as outrageously sporting or sexy as Mid Rear. There is just something in the proportions of an MR car that scream business.

    Ferrari Dino

    Ferrari Testarossa

    Ferrari 328

    Ferrari 348

    Ferrari F360/F430

    Lamborghini Countach

    Lamborghini Diablo

    Lamborghini Murcielago

    Lamborghini Gallardo

    Lamborghini Miura

    McLaren F1

    Bugatti EB110

    Bugatti Veyron

    Ford GT and GT40

    DeTomaso Pantera and Mangusta

    Those are just a few off the top of my head.

    Ever notice how the "supercar" connotation typically applies to this configuration?


    It is not by coincidence that the fastest racecars on a track that does anything but go straight have this configuration.

    The NSX didn't necessarily fail because it was a Honda. It also didn't fail because it was incapable. By many performance measures, it was at the top of its game for 10 years or more. Many cars could exceed its performance in one or two areas, but most could not completely shut it out.

    On a track today, it would still be a potent option. 16 years after it hit the market.

    The NSX primarily "failed" because it didn't have the pinnache. At this level of sports cars, most are sold because of the name or the numbers. Very few people who own Ferraris (at least in this country) REALLY know how to drive them.

    With 290HP and a V6, it didn't have the prestige at the Country Club whether it was capable of beating those that did or not.

    Also, it is hard to classify the NSX as a failure because it definitely had a Halo effect that ended up having profound and far reaching effects on the company and its market.

    Without NSX there would be no VTEC. Without VTEC Honda wouldn't have acheived many of the sales that it did. So even though the NSX may not have made money, look at all of the product lines it bolstered or created that did.

    The Integra GS-R

    The Integra Type R

    The Prelude VTEC

    The 99-00 Civic Si

    The S2000

    The 2003+ RSX

    The 2006+ Civic Si

    and that is just in this country.

    It was because of the soul of the NSX that these cars were given a chance at life.

    This is what Honda needs:

    We want an absolute unreserved attempt at the soul that we KNOW Honda has. Don't be afraid to make the cars that you know are best. That is what made you who you are.

    If you build the cars that we lust after, then I promise you will sell them. Even if we can't all afford to step up to something as breathtaking as an NSX, we will most likely fall in throughout your product line if you maximize the DNA transfer.

    Honda makes great cars. They always have. They shouldn't be ashamed of it. Rather they should embrace it.

    They made the most storied marque in history redefine they way they had done business for decades. They forced everyone to be better at what they did, and the consumer benefitted because of it.

    Bravo Honda. Now just go back and do what you do best.
    The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

    #2
    Amen

    Comment


      #3
      Yey! i didnt like that new concept... stick with what they know works.

      although the MR configuration has this allure to it, there are a few cars i can think of that can outrun and outhandle even the fastest of MR's, NSX, Murcielago etc. although the MR supercars are a force to be reckoned with, they can not keep pace with a supermodified Evolution or Skyline GTR, even the FD RX-7. the one thing that most MR supercars have is AMAZING balance, balance that cant be compared to anything else. it is kind of a goofy comparison though, supermodified to 'stock'. i wish my car was that kind of 'stock' haha.

      'Fastest Street Class' car out there, Mine's BNR34 N1 (58.5@Tsukuba)


      Garage HRS Cyber Evo (55.738@Tsukuba)


      McLaren F1 (1:04.62@Tsukuba, at best) probably can break one minute, i am sure the driver didnt want to risk anything with a car as rare as this !

      Ritmo NSX (1:01.704@Tsukuba)

      Autech Tsukada Porche GT2 (1:02.17@Tsukuba)

      Nagisa Auto Skyline GT-R (56.397@Tsukuba)

      Ferrari F50 (1:05.81@Tsukuba)

      Lamborghini Murcielago (1:04.76@Tsukuba)

      Honda NSX-R (1:03.92@Tsukuba)


      i dont know why i am rambling. not trying to prove anything, just spitting out random information. i guess the fact its 3 am and i am way overtired doesnt help me any. oh well

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Punkrampant
        Amen
        X2...
        accordtypeR aka Seve aka The Godfather.


        My Old Baby
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        ..grumpy93, iceplaya123, slr_theking, tn_accords

        Comment


          #5
          agreed....i've had similar thoughts all along, some people diss Honda because they think 4 bangers and not the technology and quality they have, someday if they would just throwout an all out motor in a daily driven car and show the world what they really can do!

          i know honda has a v8 for F1/Cart but how many average joes see/experience that....
          HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

          Comment


            #6
            Honda should so bring out a small block V8...I don't care how much a V8 Honda would cost...I'd so buy one. ...
            DEVOTE


            __________________________________________
            FS: Lokuputha's Stuff
            "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow."-The Smartest Man In The World

            Comment


              #7
              Hell fuckin yea...

              ive wondered this myself....they have been steps ahead in the industry for decades and what i never understood was why they never took it "all the way"?

              Yea the NSX speaks for itself....i think it failed much the same reason mention above....it just didnt spark with the majority of people at that time, but what it can accomplish cannot be denied...it is deff a formitable apponent.

              And thank god they went that far because if it were not for it then where would they be today!?!?

              I just think they need to push themselves again and release something that stomps the NSX and just shut everyone up who EVER says "its a Honda"

              Comment


                #8
                Without the NSX, we wouldn't have the H22. That motor was originally designed for the NSX.

                TOV is down right now, so I can't read the article.






                Comment


                  #9
                  I thought the B16 that was in the JDM 90 or 91 Civic type R was the birth of VTEC, and not the V6 NSX engine?

                  Either way, NSX is a great car, unfortunately at the time Honda just had economy written all over them and not performance. Times are changing, S2000 did fairly well, so who knows what is next.
                  Gary A.K.A. Carter
                  [sig killed by photobucket]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by The G-Man
                    I thought the B16 that was in the JDM 90 or 91 Civic type R was the birth of VTEC, and not the V6 NSX engine?

                    was there a 91 CTR? I've never heard of it?
                    oh wait...was that the Civic Si R engine B16A1?
                    90-91 Si R B16A1
                    4G - EF 1595 10.4 : 1
                    160 @ 7600 rpm
                    111 lb/ft @ 7000 rpm
                    DEVOTE


                    __________________________________________
                    FS: Lokuputha's Stuff
                    "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow."-The Smartest Man In The World

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The JDM crx's and ef hatches came with the B16 Dohc V-TEC in 1988 as far as i know

                      I was going to buy this 1st gen b16 swap but they go for alot of money for a 20 year old engine...


                      jdmCITY.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Veyron = AWD
                        To-Do List for Today
                        Be Awesome

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Honda shud bring back the NSX/NSX-R.. bring back the rolling good times..

                          wonder what the boys have been doing the whole time? rolling out MPV's..

                          Click sig to view MR thread

                          Links to other rides:
                          Honda Accord Euro-R
                          Honda Odyssey Absolute
                          Honda City I-DSi
                          Honda Stream

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Technically, yes, the B16 was the first VTEC engine, but it was the NSX that put VTEC on the map.

                            The NSX took a 3.0L VTEC V6 and handily outran a Ferrari 348ts with a 3.4L V8.

                            If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. For all out peformance cars at the time, Ferrari was the best.

                            Lamborghini has never really proven themselves in the same arenas of racing, while Ferrari has done it time and again, as has Honda.

                            Also, just an interesting note that I have recently discovered...

                            This is how far ahead of the competition Honda was in the early 90's...

                            Ferrari is STILL the dominant F1 team to beat.

                            Most of the engineers that currently work for Ferrari's F1 team were working for Honda when they disbanded their F1 effort in the early 90's.

                            Knowing a good thing when they saw it, Ferrari picked them up, and has dominated since.

                            Back before Honda disbanded the teams, Honda OWNED Formula 1.

                            In fact, because of their close relationship with McLaren chassis at the time, they were actually originally asked to produce the powerplant for the McLaren F1. Management didn't see the need, so BMW was consulted instead...and the rest is history.

                            Now, before we start the "Honda is off of their game" debate, I GUARANTEE they still have the levels of technology, they just don't necessarily "use" them.

                            How do I know they have the levels of technology?

                            They just designed their first jet engine that is 20% more fuel efficient than anything of comparable power. And to put that in perspective, it was believed that modern jet engines were at about 98% of their efficiency capacity.

                            Honda doesn't just smash what GE, Rolls-Royce, Pratt & Whitney, Honeywell, and others have been trying to do for 50+ years unless they have some really cool technology that nobody else has...

                            Also, their Indy V8 beat everyone else's so bad, that they are the only ones left supplying engines...

                            After only 2 years back into F1 and while still using an old chassis, they are expected to start winning more frequently again. There is a brand new chassis on the way.

                            They have the means, but will they use it?
                            The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dv8
                              Yey! i didnt like that new concept... stick with what they know works.

                              although the MR configuration has this allure to it, there are a few cars i can think of that can outrun and outhandle even the fastest of MR's, NSX, Murcielago etc. although the MR supercars are a force to be reckoned with, they can not keep pace with a supermodified Evolution or Skyline GTR, even the FD RX-7. the one thing that most MR supercars have is AMAZING balance, balance that cant be compared to anything else. it is kind of a goofy comparison though, supermodified to 'stock'. i wish my car was that kind of 'stock' haha.

                              'Fastest Street Class' car out there, Mine's BNR34 N1 (58.5@Tsukuba)


                              Garage HRS Cyber Evo (55.738@Tsukuba)


                              McLaren F1 (1:04.62@Tsukuba, at best) probably can break one minute, i am sure the driver didnt want to risk anything with a car as rare as this !

                              Ritmo NSX (1:01.704@Tsukuba)

                              Autech Tsukada Porche GT2 (1:02.17@Tsukuba)

                              Nagisa Auto Skyline GT-R (56.397@Tsukuba)

                              Ferrari F50 (1:05.81@Tsukuba)

                              Lamborghini Murcielago (1:04.76@Tsukuba)

                              Honda NSX-R (1:03.92@Tsukuba)


                              i dont know why i am rambling. not trying to prove anything, just spitting out random information. i guess the fact its 3 am and i am way overtired doesnt help me any. oh well
                              You can't compare full prepped race cars to stock roadcars.

                              The NSX stock and the Skyline GT-R stock are absolutely neck and neck.

                              Also, in most Japanese racing forms, the NSX is usually limited by power as opposed to dynamic ability.

                              The just recently switched to boosted power for the JGTCC because they couldn't do it NA without a completely new car.
                              The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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