North American Union? Is this all for real?

[sackingz123]

middle east, enriched with history and beauty.

[Turbo Dave]

Regardless of what happens, you're going to wake up, eat your Wheaties, take a shit, and go about your day. Come home make love to the one that put a ring on your hand... or that hand itself... and go to sleep, only to begin again the next day.

haha i found that statement to be amusing

[zack_odom]

Because you almost had a point right up there to the end. I do this with one liners because you clearly can't see past your own biases.

You haven't slighted me in any way shape or form. I can simply tell by your posts that you have already made up your mind, and nothing will change it, hence discussion won't happen, hence it is not a productive use of time.


And you are right to some extent the damage from Katrina could have been avoided. Starting almost 100years ago with the last category 3 hurricane. Does that still mean that we DESERVED what happened? I don't think so.

Also, as a "superpower" we don't have any obligation but to ourselves. Just like everyone else. We CHOOSE to help because it is the right thing to do. Only to be slapped in the face when bad stuff happens to us. We help because we are generous in that regard, NOT because we are obligated.

I guess your right. I feel really embarassed now...I also feel like I bought into the anti-propaganda propaganda.I feel duped and used. I dont know what to do now. I am in some strange space now. I mean, I love my country, I just dont like wars I guess? I dont know wtf I'm supposed to do or say. I just know when people are lying to me. It makes me mad. That's all... I just want to say that I never said America deserved what happened....and the posts, I guess as a young guy,
I was just hoping someone could help me to understand what is REALLY going on. But I came across as close minded and set in my ways. Im 22 not 70! This is all some confusing shit! After watching all these movies and reading all this shit that people put out, My brain hurts. It really hurts. and alot of what you say is helping me dude. I just still have so much to learn or realize....whatever......
I feel stupid after posting in here. I'm sorry guys, sometimes I feel like I just dont get it. I sincerely hope no one was offended by my comments...Owe and Deev I'm sorry guys, I get worked up I guess......

[deevergote]

I guess your right. I feel really embarassed now...I also feel like I bought into the anti-propaganda propaganda.I feel duped and used. I dont know what to do now. I am in some strange space now. I mean, I love my country, I just dont like wars I guess? I dont know wtf I'm supposed to do or say. I just know when people are lying to me. It makes me mad. That's all... I just want to say that I never said America deserved what happened....and the posts, I guess as a young guy,
I was just hoping someone could help me to understand what is REALLY going on. But I came across as close minded and set in my ways. Im 22 not 70! This is all some confusing shit! After watching all these movies and reading all this shit that people put out, My brain hurts. It really hurts. and alot of what you say is helping me dude. I just still have so much to learn or realize....whatever......
I feel stupid after posting in here. I'm sorry guys, sometimes I feel like I just dont get it. I sincerely hope no one was offended by my comments...Owe and Deev I'm sorry guys, I get worked up I guess......

Not to worry. It's all in the name of good discussion!

I'm not 100% right in anything I say, and neither is Scott. However, we're both educated, and do our best not to say something that we don't fully understand (notice that I talk more about people and perceptions, as that's what I know... he talks more about hard facts, because he's actually done the research)

The greatest teacher I ever had once told me (and this is a very popular phrase...) "the moment you admit that you know nothing is the moment you begin to learn".



Of course, as far as this stuff goes... I don't see the point in wasting my time learning about (or getting worked up over) something that I won't change.

[bigjoegood1]

The greatest teacher I ever had once told me (and this is a very popular phrase...) "the moment you admit that you know nothing is the moment you begin to learn".

Deev,
That's what Stan learned on the "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson" episode of South Park. wiki link

[deevergote]

It's some of the greatest advice ever.


I'm never too proud to act like a true idiot when I know nothing. I won't put on airs, I won't pretend I know what I'm doing... those that understand that I'm trying to learn appreciate it. Those that think I AM an idiot are probably not the ones I need to learn from anyway!

[laz93se]

I love this thread, probably the best thread ever (other than automotive tech info).

I am surprised this thread did not break out into a I believe you believe crap.
Owe and Deev as well as zack have brought in lots of info that can be researched. If only I could disclose just some of the info that I learned working for TSA & CBP, but it's all SSI and can only be disclosed for people with a need to know basis.

[laz93se]

Of course, as far as this stuff goes... I don't see the point in wasting my time learning about (or getting worked up over) something that I won't change.

Deeve here is a slogan for ya
Like obama's old slogan (yes WE can)

[owequitit]

I guess your right. I feel really embarassed now...I also feel like I bought into the anti-propaganda propaganda.I feel duped and used. I dont know what to do now. I am in some strange space now. I mean, I love my country, I just dont like wars I guess? I dont know wtf I'm supposed to do or say. I just know when people are lying to me. It makes me mad. That's all... I just want to say that I never said America deserved what happened....and the posts, I guess as a young guy,
I was just hoping someone could help me to understand what is REALLY going on. But I came across as close minded and set in my ways. Im 22 not 70! This is all some confusing shit! After watching all these movies and reading all this shit that people put out, My brain hurts. It really hurts. and alot of what you say is helping me dude. I just still have so much to learn or realize....whatever......
I feel stupid after posting in here. I'm sorry guys, sometimes I feel like I just dont get it. I sincerely hope no one was offended by my comments...Owe and Deev I'm sorry guys, I get worked up I guess......

Often, the world is a very complicated place. Sometimes, it is so complicated that it seems easier to believe some simple conspiracy theory, or some biased news report.

Having worked in the governmental system, I can tell you that there are actually people doing their jobs, and trying to do them in the best interest of the people they serve. The problem is that by the time everyone is done being served, and "all needs" are met, it is a long, complicated system that is hard to understand and easy to bend out of proportion.

[deevergote]

The more people you deal with, the more complex the methods are to meet those needs. Priorities must be set, and not everyone can be satisfied. I learned that just by being a member, staff member, and eventually owner of this board. I was member #54. Half of the original members didn't come back after the first month or so... But I watched this place grow from nothing to what it is today. The way things have run in this little virtual micro-government have gotten increasingly complex (the rules have been expanded, limitations placed, new forums added with new sets of guidelines and requirements... more staff to keep up with things). I have a hard enough time making people understand why I do the things I do here... and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people bitching on other websites about our policies... "30 posts to be able to use the rest of the forum... that's just a ridiculous power trip, and an insult to new members"... Yes, I've seen that. I can't imagine multiplying that by MILLIONS... and adding in the real-life factor. Here, I'm dealing with a few thousand people at most at any given time. It's a focused community based on something relatively unimportant to daily life. The decisions here do not influence healthcare, employment, taxes, education, war, etc... and it's complicated enough. I don't understand everything about our government and their decisions, but I know that everything is likely to be MUCH more complicated than I can understand without learning a HELL of a lot more!

For example... "bring our troops home!"... great idea... but we'd leave a crippled, festering nest of people that despise us in our wake... ready to be snatched up by another potentially hostile government, like Iran. That's just a very small example, with little explanation... and that alone is enough to show how quickly things can get complicated with government actions.

[zack_odom]

good points!
Thanks guys.